frame es2 rigid ? year interesting stamping

The ES2 was always to a higher spec than the rest of the OHV range. Pre-war, this meant a cradle fame. After the war, the Model 18 gained a cradle too and the ES2 became a plunger-sprung model.

If a rigid cradle frame has a number as low as 6000-odd then it is a post-war Model 18. It was normal practice for frames to have a factory 'shop' number that aided tracking it through the assembly process prior to the end of the line where engine and frame numbers were stamped.

It's difficult to say without photos but this may be what you're seeing. Unlike the shop engine numbers though, on the frames they were usually solely numeric.

Have a word with the club records officer. Both 'matching' frame number and shop number are normally shown in the factory records.

It's a casting mark. M&B were the foundry. Mason & Burns of Walsall who made malleable iron castings for most of the British motorcycle industry.

Hi Mick,

   The number shown in your photo is the the casting reference number and the M & B will be the foundry that cast them. The N4 on the other side is a general reference number used on most externally sourced parts. The frame number should be on the nearside of the front petrol tank lug. If you want to send photos of each side of the full frame, I can give you a visual identification.

P.S.  The other Richard posted at the same moment as me, hence the cross-over. 

Richard, it's not very often that we disagree, mostly just a question of who gets there first. :-)

That really looks like a casting mark. Have you had a good look at the front nearside fuel tank mount ?

Hi Mick,

   This number could apply to a 1934 or a 1954 bike, but to get an idea you need to post a photo of the whole frame. If you would rather not do this you will have to contact the machine registrar as he can then check your number in the factory records, although he will probably want photos as well. I have attached 2 photos, the first is the 1930s type and the second is the 1950s version.

Hi Mick,

   There should be another letter and number stamped near the 57314. For 1954 the year code is J, so if it is a Model 18, it will be J3 as the 3 denotes the Model 18. It could also be a 16H which will be J2 or a Big4 which will be J7. All these frames will be identical.

   Although several of the lugs differ from the pre-war version, the main change are the gearbox lugs. The pre-war has the upright "doll's head" box, while yours will be the laydown pre AMC type.

I have got three  model 18s all rigid and one plunger ES2 frame.The 18s are 1946,1947,and 1949 with upright gear boxes the ES2 frame is 1954 with a laydown box all four frames have the frame no and year letter stamped on the front down tube sidecar lug but there again you may have a special my first 18,a 1946 model, (gone many years ago) had a plunger frame upright gearbox and girder forks.all the best

I attached an edit of Richard’s frame photo where probable frame serial number and model code would be stamped(opposite side of the lug that we are viewing in picture). In general, did this era frame have multiple locations that the frame number could be in or was it one location?  Any insight is appreciated as I was under impression that there was only one location for the stamping from factory. Thank you -Pat

If you go onto andy buys bikes website he has got close up photos of frame and engine no  locations he hasnt got any singles for sale but if you go into the archive/bikes sold section and scroll down ( a long job) you will find a no of singles click on any and photos of the locations will appear hope this helps

And show the full frame, one (or more) of the crew will tell you what the frame is whatever numbers are hammered into it.

Jon  

The frame is the type used for the post 1950 single models as it has the  castings to mount the laydown gearbox.

As Richard Cornish has previously posted, the frame is for a 1954 rigid single.

The number would date it as a January or February despatch.

Richard has documented the models. There should be a letter J stamped above the frame number and a number to designate the model.

There are instances of the letter not being stamped but you should be able to find the model number.

2 for a 16H s.v.

3 for a Model 18 s.v.

7 for a Big 4 s.v.

There were also a few rigid framed Model 19's made at this time.  These were designated with a model number 6.

57314 falls within a large batch of Model 7, Model 88 and ES2 bikes all produced in the first week of April 1954. These bikes are all recorded with the Model Mumber 'J'. Is this the correct frame number?