Electra rebuild

Ian,

The lighter springs in roadholder forks intended for Navigator and Electra are colour coded green. Yours are exactly correct and I'm sure they will be of correct length for your Electra. Everything, other than the spring, is common with norton dominator.

On my Electra previous owner had found longer 5/16 ins cycle bolts to secure the strengthening plates to the headstock. Still in place when I got it, these had made very severe gouges in the thread of the triple tree and must have had a dire effect on the steering. You are lucky to have an original build.

The welding on my head steady bracket, the one you powder coated, ran over the side and prevented it clamping properly in the front down tube. Soon smoothed with a file it was just one of the faults Norton built into my machine.

You may find the grit or sand blasting of the frame components prior to powder coating causes some distortion. With paint in the holes as well, prepare yourself for some resistance as the final bolts and studs are presented.

Good luck

Peter

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

Added some new photos today. Frame coming together and forks dissassembly. Interesting thing, the fork springs have green paint on the top. According to the old Mick Hemmings and Brian Crighton article on roadholder forks, solo bikes had red painted springs, sidecars had green,. Also, my springs are spot on 18" long, according to mick hemmings they should be 18.687. Any thoughts?

I managed to catch the centre stand before it went to the powdercoaters and I see what you mean about the repair.

Hi Ian,

Your pictures are proving very useful as I have just spotted that there is a riveted on cable clip on the right hand side of the front mudguard which is missing on my Navigator's chrome mudguard.

When I stripped my forks down I measured the spring at 475mm. which is very much in line with your quoted figure of 18.687 inches but I am fairly certain that I have Dominator springs. (no colour code on them). The original correct Navigator/Electra spring with the green paint is a bit shorter than the Dominator one so your springs are probaby near enough right.

Patrick.

Hi Patrick - just spotted your note.

The cable clip on the front mudguard was not riveted on as you write - the original was spot welded on. - See picture (with apologies for the state of my Navi...)

Previously patrick_mullen wrote:

Hi Ian,

Your pictures are proving very useful as I have just spotted that there is a riveted on cable clip on the right hand side of the front mudguard which is missing on my Navigator's chrome mudguard.

When I stripped my forks down I measured the spring at 475mm. which is very much in line with your quoted figure of 18.687 inches but I am fairly certain that I have Dominator springs. (no colour code on them). The original correct Navigator/Electra spring with the green paint is a bit shorter than the Dominator one so your springs are probaby near enough right.

Patrick.

Attachments
cable-clip-jpg

Hi Peter & All,

Just to add my two pennyworth into the Tell-Tale indicator lamps on the headlamp shell. (I have yet to see the photos, but think I know what you are referring to).

On the first 1959 Jubilees, with the 5" headlamp shell (held in place by an extension of the fork crown), there were two red tell-tales fitted, to act as an ignition warning light. They were 'powered' from the speedo bulb, which was on all the time the ignition was on. It did not go out (car-fashion) when charging. This led to several 'problems'...

1) They could not be seen in daylight anyway.

2) No indication of correct battery charging.

3) At night-time, they would glow red all the time.

4) Premature bulb failure - as running all the time.

So, in 1960, with the introduction of the larger 6 1/2" headlamp, the Tell-Tales were done away with, and the speedo bulb was energised from the tail lamp circuit instead. Consequently, no Navigators or Electras had Tell-Tales & only early Jubiless had them. Of course, Norton being Norton - some may have slipped through as the same 6 1/2" headlamp shell was being used on other bikes in the AMC stable, notably the 250 and 350cc AJS & Matchless single 'lightweights'. Maybe they retained the Tell-Tale lights?

HTH

Andy S

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Previously peter_holland1 wrote:

Hi Ian,

All the oil tank and battery box mounts are supposed to be a rubber grommet with a steel tube inside. The rubber hardly gets squashed at all when the bolt is tightened.

Norton in their wisdom allowed for tolerances byenlarging the lower mounting holes in theouter frames. Your second to last picture clearly shows howthe steel tube, meant to be inside the grommet, has been driven into the enlarged frame mounting hole. It is a great pain to find this out when you have the frame professionally painted with the offending steel spacer driven into the mounting hole. Adding a washer between frame and spacer cures the problem.

I think your headlight shell is from another model. The Electra shell never had those two white-ishtell-tales on it. The mileage indicated may have come with the replacement shell. Your engine internals look low(er) mileage.

Thanks for putting all the photos on the web.

Good luck

Peter

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

More photos have been added. Cylinder heads are on and we're moving on to the chassis...

Ian

Hi Ian,

Another fine looking Electra is to be found at the National Motorcycle Museum, near Coventry

Andy S

===================

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

Thaks for the comments Peter. I see what you mean about the headlight tell tales. The shell seems to be the right size and shape. Wonder what it came from? I've got a lot of photos of Sammy Miller's Electra and his doesn't have the white markers as you say. His also shows a 20 Amp ammeter which I can't seem to be able to find - still looking. You can see I have an ammeter on the shell but the face is completely gone.

I've wondered about the mileage too because of the condition inside the engine.

I did find pieces of grommets everyhwere. They were all dried out and crumbly. I've got the frame all apart now (I can understand why people thought it wasn't Norton's "finest hour') and been taking out the steel inserts before it goes off for powdercoating.

Keep the comments coming -they're very helpful.

Hi Peter & Ian

The Lightweight Centre stand can be improved by adding two spacer on the pivot bush as in photos.

This prevents the top of the stand leg folding inwards, producing a lop-sided look when parking.

Andy S

=======

Previously peter_holland1 wrote:

Hi Ian,

Both theNavigator and ElectraI've ownedhad the 1964-on wider Roadholders. Identified by a steering lock on the top yoke and lock stops welded to the front frame member adjacent to lower steering bearing. You have the earlier narrow forks with bolt-on lock stopand Patrick may be correct that tell/tales were discontinued with the wider forks.

The styling panels your bike lacks are held on by the 5/16 BSC outer threads on the long, cross frame,double threaded stud under the seat. Also by the thin nuts you found on the end of the swinging arm pivot stud.

Your centre stand has been repaired. Looks like the originalpedal broke off and was welded on again at a strange angle. Looks OK now, but it might foul a regular silencer. There's probably a picture of the lightweight centre stand, with foot pedal,on the NOC spares website. Pricey though. Navigators and Jubilees had a similar stand without the foot pedal. A 3/16 pin, about one inch long,was inserted just above the foot on the left leg. You'll see where if you look at the casting. You might decide to remove the welded pedal. Hope you read this before the new paint has dried.

Why does it always look so sunny in your photos? I'm beginning to think you must live in Australia.

Great photos

Peter

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

Patrick,

The bike sat out in desert heat of southern California for at least 30 years. I'm sure the red has just faded away. It's amazing that it's actaully in as good a condition as it is considering.There might be remnants of it when I take it apart. The frame is all dissasembled now and I've posted new photos.

Ian

Attachments
centre-stand-spacer1-jpg

Hi Peter & Ian..

It seems 'add another attachment' does not work - here is another stand/spacer picture

Andy S

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Previously andy_sochanik wrote:

Hi Peter & Ian

The Lightweight Centre stand can be improved by adding two spacer on the pivot bush as in photos.

This prevents the top of the stand leg folding inwards, producing a lop-sided look when parking.

Andy S

=======

Previously peter_holland1 wrote:

Hi Ian,

Both theNavigator and ElectraI've ownedhad the 1964-on wider Roadholders. Identified by a steering lock on the top yoke and lock stops welded to the front frame member adjacent to lower steering bearing. You have the earlier narrow forks with bolt-on lock stopand Patrick may be correct that tell/tales were discontinued with the wider forks.

The styling panels your bike lacks are held on by the 5/16 BSC outer threads on the long, cross frame,double threaded stud under the seat. Also by the thin nuts you found on the end of the swinging arm pivot stud.

Your centre stand has been repaired. Looks like the originalpedal broke off and was welded on again at a strange angle. Looks OK now, but it might foul a regular silencer. There's probably a picture of the lightweight centre stand, with foot pedal,on the NOC spares website. Pricey though. Navigators and Jubilees had a similar stand without the foot pedal. A 3/16 pin, about one inch long,was inserted just above the foot on the left leg. You'll see where if you look at the casting. You might decide to remove the welded pedal. Hope you read this before the new paint has dried.

Why does it always look so sunny in your photos? I'm beginning to think you must live in Australia.

Great photos

Peter

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

Patrick,

The bike sat out in desert heat of southern California for at least 30 years. I'm sure the red has just faded away. It's amazing that it's actaully in as good a condition as it is considering.There might be remnants of it when I take it apart. The frame is all dissasembled now and I've posted new photos.

Ian

Attachments
centre-stand-spacer2-jpg

Hi Peter & Ian..

It seems 'add another attachment' does not work - here is another stand/spacer picture

Andy S

Attachments
electra-stand-mod-001-jpg

Hi Andy,

Interesting that you say that Norton ceased the telltales with the change to the 6 1/2" headlamps which were fitted to both Jubilee and Navigators probably at the same time in late 1960 (presumably as the 1961 model.

I have the two Navigators - a De Luxe with the frame nr. 964** registered on 12 May 1961 and a Standard with the frame nr.975** also seemingly delivered in May 1961. Presumably the De Luxe was made very early on in Navigator production. The De Luxe one has the 6 1/2" headlamp still with the original Wipac light unit and it has the two telltales in the shell. The Standard has the virtually identical 6 1/2" headlamp without the telltales. The only other difference that I can spot between the shells is that the one without telltales has two dimples in the shell to indicate the Off position for the Ignition and Light switches.

Of course I do not know the detailed early history of either of the bikes so it is perfectly possible that for any reason the original shell could have been changed because of say accident damage etc. When I got the De Luxe bike it had been stored in a garden shed and still had it's tax disc showing October 1970 so it was still relatively youthful when it went off the road because of a gearbox problem.

Ian's Electra looks a bit similar condition when he first got it - i.e mostly complete and original so it's interesting that his machine has the telltales as very few (if any) Jubilees and Navigators were sold in the USA.

Patrick

Thanks Andy for your picture of the cable clip - I have now re-attached a clip on my mudguard. There was just a little hole there where the original spot weld had broken but I have now re-attached it with a pop rivet.

Patrick

Ian,

I think 20 amps is a bit over the top.

Thegreatest deflectionyou are likey to see will be while discharging the battery with engine off.

The horn is not wired through the ammeter.

Worst case:-

Headlight 35 Watts - about 3 amps

Coils - 3 Amps

Tail light and brake light on together - 25 Watts - about 2 amps

Winkers - 18 watts - 1.5 amps.

Grand total - 9.5 amps or about 114 Watts.

Your alternator is about 120watts - maximum.

I cannot forsee any needle swing greater than 10 amps. Mostly my needle on my Electra, with it's original relay controlled voltage regulator, sits in the range -1 to +3 amps when riding. With an instrument reading -20 to +20 amps, and vibrating to boot, you would be lucky to see the needle move from zero.

I recommend you seek a smaller range than 20 amps. 8, 10, or 12 amps?

Peter

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

Thaks for the comments Peter. I see what you mean about the headlight tell tales. The shell seems to be the right size and shape. Wonder what it came from? I've got a lot of photos of Sammy Miller's Electra and his doesn't have the white markers as you say. His also shows a 20 Amp ammeter which I can't seem to be able to find - still looking. You can see I have an ammeter on the shell but the face is completely gone.

I've wondered about the mileage too because of the condition inside the engine.

I did find pieces of grommets everyhwere. They were all dried out and crumbly. I've got the frame all apart now (I can understand why people thought it wasn't Norton's "finest hour') and been taking out the steel inserts before it goes off for powdercoating.

Keep the comments coming -they're very helpful.

Hi Ian,

That's looking good.

I didn't know you could do home powder coating so I must have a look at the Eastwood catalogue. Do you get good results with it? Are there any health hazards with powder coating - 2k paint does a good job but it needs a lot of quality equipment to apply. Did you do your own shot blasting preparation as well? Last time I tried this I found that my 3hp single phase compressor wasn't powerful enough to do a proper job. That was used on MGB suspension so maybe I was expecting too much and the dried sand used was costly.

Patrick

Patrick, here you go! Electrostatic Magic

dan

Thanks Dan. That is interesting. Years ago when I lived in Yorkshire I got several frames powder coated by a firm in Pontefract and I must say that the finish has lasted impressively well. So I rate powder coating highly. I didn't realise that it was possible to get a kit for home use but I would still need to acquire quite a bit of extra equipment.

On the otherhand I have several good sprayguns and the use of decent facilities for 2K painting so spray painting is the cheap option. Decisions! I think powder coating is more common in the USA.

Patrick

My scrambles bikes are all powder coated, as is the jubilee, it lasts well andcan be touched up with hammerite ! I think it was about 120 quid per frame incl blasting and covering the swing arm. The only thing to watch is that you are not coating over a crack. I've no idea how good those diy units are, but as you say decent blasting is needed first.

Will be working on the jubilee tomorrow, hopefully will make some progress, I got side tracked by the ES2! but can't go any further with that until I get the head and mag back.

Dan

Hi Ian,

The larger hole in the frame upright has a special washer tokeep the bolt central to the hole. The Norton part has an overalldiameter just larger than the hole in the frame upright. On one side it has been reduced in diameter to fit and locate inthe frame hole. Hole in the centre suits the bolt. Just like two thin quarter inch washers side by side and different O.D. The larger diameter goes on the bolt head side of the frame.

My 1964 Electra had its original (rusty) paintwork and I'm sure it left the Plumstead factory with 'roadholder' transfers. The transfers were still visible. I think this was a cost cutting exerciseby AMC.

Keep up the good work.

Peter

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

Fitting the rear battery holder on to the main frame post but I see that the top hole is quite big - should there be a grommet in there? The photos show how it came off the bike and you can see the two holes on the main frame piece too.

Also how to you flatten the rivets that hold the roadholder badges on -those things are hard material and hard to reach the back of on two of them? I know I have to add them before mounting the brackets.

I've also added a few more photos to the build page showing the powdercoating done on the headlight brackets.

Ian: I am sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong but I believe that the Roadholder "rivets" are not typical rivets at all but rather what I would call drive pins or I guess that they could be called drive rivets. The shank of the drive rivets have a high angle twist to them. They are meant to be hammered into a hole slightly smaller than the base diameter of the shank on the rivet. Hopefully the hole in the steering head has not been enlarged.

Mike

Hi Ian,

Your steering stop is the same as the Navigator and it looks OK to me - it simply bolts on.

Patrick

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

If your interested in seeing my Electra undergoing restoration I've create a page for it here... (nothing commercial...)

Hi Ian,

Been a few months since your last update. How is the restoration proceeding?

It took me a long time to restore my Electra. One of the worst aspects was replacing the lost and rusted tinware. It was tempting to ditch the 'original' look, but I persevered. Eventually eBay, autojumbles and NOC Spares provided. Best to quietly forget the cost.

Thanks for your photos to October.

Peter

Although these posts are getting a bit old now I see a lot of good info here. Hopefully I can add a few more bits to it. When you come to the electrics a peek at my web site AOServices.co.uk re Lightweight Norton would be in order. If you are going electronic for ignition and battery charge control then I recommend a rewire it yourself job. The standard loom being for points and the switching box on the back mudguard has several point of obsolescence. So scrub round it and start again.

Don't worry about 20 AMP Ammetters the 12Amp version is plenty adequate.

Al Os

Hi Ian, Peter & all,

1) Have revisited this thread. Have looked at the photos & cannot see one of the Headlamp with its 'tell-tales'.

2) Brilliant photos, though! Must have taken you ages with mucky hands to do them. Unless you had a mate standing by.....

3) On reassembly, a spacer inboard of the centre stand leg is an essential improvement. Over the years, wear sets in where the stand 'lands' on the frame, resulting in the leg on one sode or the other moving inwards. A spacer is a good preventative measure - see picture attached

Attachments
centre-stand-spacer1-jpg

Hi Ian,

There were no air filters fitted as standard to Norton Lightweights. If you are looking at the carb and wondering what went onto the fine thread at inlet, it was a very short bellmouth about 1/2 inch long. Norton did fit some sort of a blocking plate at the bottom of the upright frame channel section. It was secured by the centre stand stop securing bolts. Purpose I believe to stop some of the spray and dust from the front wheel going straight up the channel section and into the carb bellmouth.

Cheers

Peter

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

What do Electra's use for an air filter? I see no mention of them anywhere.

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

About the handlebars; how much of a rise do the UK models have? The bike came with the high rise US bars which I don't really like.

Ian,

I've the old bars that came with the bike, and the replacement as fitted now. I'll have a go at measuring them. Believe both are the same dimensions, or thereabouts. I got the stainless replacement from Norvil who knew which bars I needed.

Peter

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

Look at these photos of the steering stop - is this the correct shape? The marks on it would indicate that it is as you can see the cut edge from the factory.

**One note of caution - this steering stop is designed for Forks with a 7" distance between the fork tube centres - up to 1963.

After 1963/4, the forks were made marginally wider to 7 3/8" - recogniseable by the addition on the top yoke of a steering lock - offset to the right from the centre line.

The steering stop for this later fork was a bracket welded onto to lower head bearing housing

Attachments
steering-stop-late-jpg

Previously andy_sochanik wrote:

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

Look at these photos of the steering stop - is this the correct shape? The marks on it would indicate that it is as you can see the cut edge from the factory.

**One note of caution - this steering stop is designed for Forks with a 7" distance between the fork tube centres - up to 1963.

After 1963/4, the forks were made marginally wider to 7 3/8" - recogniseable by the addition on the top yoke of a steering lock - offset to the right from the centre line.

The steering stop for this later fork was a bracket welded onto to lower head bearing housing

**another picture

Attachments
steering-stop-lock-late1-jpg

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

If your interested in seeing my Electra undergoing restoration I've create a page for it here... (nothing commercial...)

Wonder you had time to do the rebuild-so many pictures....wonderful stuff.Al Oz

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

About the handlebars; how much of a rise do the UK models have? The bike came with the high rise US bars which I don't really like.

Hi Ian,

Finally got round to measuring the handlebars from my 1964 Electra. As fitted and believed to be original UK fit. They feel the same as on my 1965 Navigator which I owned in 1968. Both bikes had the later, wider, 7 3/8 Roadholders.

Should be on attachment. Sorry you had to wait so long.

Cheers

Peter

Attachments
electraukhandlebar-jpg

Previously Ian Easton wrote:

Anyone have a good condition 6.5" Wipac headlight rim they would like to part with? The one I have is a bit scraped up.

Ian,

I struggled to find a replacement. In the end I gave my slightly rusty and scraped rim to a good plater and much to my surprise it came back looking better than new. You have to find a plater who will put the work into the preparation - not so easy.

I was offered a new 6.5 " rim at a show and bought it. It was too large a diameter (by about 1/8 ins) and I seriously considered slitting it and rewelding it to get it to fit. Then the replating...naaah. I've still got it.

Peter

Well done that man. It's nice to see someone who can appreciate the little bikes as much as all the other models.

21,000 miles??? not a lot! Please reinstate the true mileage on the rebuilt speedo. The bike deserves it. And yes, it can be done.