Im trying to trace the previous owner(s) / mechanic(s)who have worked on a 1950s George Cohen ES2 (reg YWG661)
I would like to chat about the changes they may have made to the GC "original" spec on the engine... in particular removing the electronic ignition/twin spark plug set up.
Im about to rebuild it and want to get any additional information I can before I take it off the road, Im going to miss blasting around Hampshire on it!... I wont miss all the Castrol R on my driveway
Nice shed...
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Why would you change it?
It would just be an ES2 if you take away George's work.
What are you trying to address? Is the ignition causing you problems or do you have charging issues?... which makes it less reliable. It is a great bike, I remember it in George's hands; I called at the farm one day; he was out said one of the girls. But he won't be long, I can hear him coming out of Chillingford! you could here it coming for miles!
Are you rebuilding to address the leaks or is she worn? Maybe if just needs resealing / tightening up?
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Ignition
On the build notes which came with the bike it says it had boyer electronic ignition from a commando... This has been removed and I wondered why. George had gone to quite a bit of trouble putting a second spark plug in the heavily modified head.
The bike goes really well with the current Lucas racing magneto (no Dyno), totally unlike any other es2 I have ridden, the motor feels and sounds more like a modern 450 Motorcross engine..very free revving and ... As you said noisy.
I think it's just in need of nipping a few bolts to slow the leaks but it that fails I will strip it down... I believe some of internal components were from a jawa speedway bike.. I don't know if those bits are still in there but I suspect they are.
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He must have wanted to find…
He must have wanted to find out if there was any benefit from twin plugs. But he could not fire a twin plug/twin spark setup with a normal magneto, since the spark would always take the easier route and only fire one of them.
So he had to fit the Boyer system to test it. Boyer for Commando always fires two plugs at the same time (wasted spark). If both leads were fed to different plugs within one cylinder, they would fire both of those twin plugs.
He probably found no improvement, so he went back from the electronic ignition to a racing magneto instead. And of course it doesn't require a battery + coils + charging system, which saves a little power and weight and makes it a bit more reliable.
So the only evidence remaining is the unused second plug. It makes perfect sense.
If all of us took our Nortons apart to slow the leaks, there wouldn't be very many on the road!
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twin plug head
yes David, I was guessing the same thing... I have spent the afternoon tightening the crank case bolts.. Im also going to fit a non return breather to reduce the air pressure in the crank case.(I read somewhere that may help a bit... but it seems unlikely)
It also looks like im going to need to replace the primary drive belt and the belt which drives the magneto ( although the latter looks new).
My First ES2 didn't leak much but from memory i didn't put oil in it very regularly
(AOL 802 at the Arbuthnot trial 40+ years ago attached)
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Great photo !
Great photo !
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Thanks Howard... The AA took…
Thanks Howard... The AA took me home
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Typical of George to use a…
Typical of George to use a belt drive for the magneto! When you think about the way George used to dismiss the virtue of Originality, that's perhaps not surprising...but he still loved Castrol R! (Now no longer made...I suppose the Morris version is the replacement...)
My two singles are both incontinent...I don't even knoe for certain where from. Gearboxes do need regular tipping up.
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Fit an air cleaner, you do…
Fit an air cleaner, you do like your engines don't you!
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Engine mods.
Hi Luke,
Your bike is perhaps better described as a Model 18 as it has a rigid frame, although both models share the same engine with the only difference being the stamped numbers.
Looking at the engine, the barrel looks to be a 500T which has had a couple of fins removed from the top. This would indicate the stroke has been reduced and if it has DOHC Jawa speedway flywheels, this would be 81mm. The bore size of the Jawa would be 88mm, but the maximum safe size for the Norton barrel will be 84mm, so it is possible the piston is a BSA B50 which would make the capacity 449cc.
Regarding the oil leaks, make sure the return flow seen in the top of the tank is the expected amount and also there is not too much oil going to the rocker box. Also looking at your photo there are not enough engine breathers for a high revving engine. If you look at a Manx racing engine you will see these have 3 breather pipes on the crankcases along with the timed main bearing breather. One-way breathers are not an advantage, it's better to let the engine breath freely in both directions, but you will need a catch tank.
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B50 piston
Hi Richard
The notes say it has a BSA B50 piston... But someone has stamped 75 x 79 on the crank case!
There is also an 8mm thick spacer under the barrel
This makes me think a subsequent owner (RKW) may have made other modifications... I won't know unless I take it apart
Or RKW gets in touch.
It's unimportant really but I am just curious.
Oil seems to be flowing well on the return ..
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George Cohen
I knew George well and was around when he was building his various Specials both pushrod and ohc engined bikes . I did sell him an ex Shane Lockley ES2 pushrod race engine in a moment of weakness , this had a special crank , JAP conrod, B44 piston , race cams and that went into one of his Specials. I can remember seeing George machine the distinctive reduced finning on the engine . There's some information on his Specials on the internet under the heading " Tales from a Somerset Shed". George normally supplied useful and detailed build notes with the bikes he sold . Hope this helps.
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Thanks RobertI have the…
Thanks Robert
I have the build notes for the bike as it left George... I think it has been modified since he built it
My bike is featured in Tales from a Somerset Shed ""Norton Queen Elizabeth Coronation Special", Its not quite so polished now!
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... you have there Luke. Sorry can't help with the question.