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MKIII LED conversion

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Hi folks,
Is it possible to convert indicators to LED bulbs using both 062045LED flasher relay and 382LED bulbs (x4) for MKIII Commando which includes a deck flasher repetition bulb ?

Looking forward to hear about.
Jérôme

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Please be aware of some points with LED. The LED-Light Emitting Diode, is polarity conscious, and most that are sold are made for Negative Earth. There is no need to change the bike's  polarity but it could be an option-more information if you contact me direct.
You need the specific Flasher relay, as the current drawn by the LED is so small the original flasher will not work.
The wiring colours of the wires can be unusual, so have fun with the fitting and making them work.

You wrote:
The wiring colours of the wires can be unusual, so have fun with the fitting and making them work.

Are you speaking about the Flasher relay ? As being 2 terminals with no polarity as far as I suppose, why is it going to stand as a burden ? Or do you mean of something else?

Is there some wire modification to observe towards the deck flasher indicator light ?
Looking forward to hear from you.

Jérôme.
PS: as being a French, I hope what I intend to explain is understandable enough ...

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Hi Jerome,
as the part numbers given are for an LED flasher and associated LED's then these will work on your commando.

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On the MK3 you may also need the 'tweeker' or rearrange the wiring. if you use the tweeker then set it up with the bike running. They are so sensitive that if you set them up with the bike stopped then it will flash like mad when it is running. Best of all is not to botehr with the conversion of the headlights and stick with just converting the headlamp and the tail light. 

Thank you Ashley,

You wrote:
On the MK3 you may also need the 'tweeker' or rearrange the wiring.
As being French, sorry not to have a vocabulary wide enough; what is the 'tweeker' ? Has the wiring for the deck flasher indicator (not a LED indeed) to be modified ?
In case of YES, I was wondering how to modify without 'destroying' the existing loom (map and corresponding loom interface)

You also wrote:
Best of all is not to bother with the conversion of the headlights and stick with ...
You mean flashers instead, don't you ?

Looking forward to hear from you
Jérôme
 

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Hi gentlemen,
I also own a nice imported 650cc Firebird Scambler BSA from USA.
Can I convert to LED headlight / taillight on a Commando pre MKIII basis the same ?

All the best.
Jérôme

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You have a couple of options.

My preference is to use a modern flasher unit that has a separate line for the warning lamp.

The other benefit of a modern flasher unit is that you can use LEDs, incandescent lamps, or a mixture of both, as you no longer need to make up the magic 42 watts per side to get the flashing speed correct like you do with the original LU35048 flasher with it's bi-metallic strip.

I did an article about this sometime ago which you may find useful:

https://granttiller.com/bernie-kent

Thank you Tiller for your post.
I have always been wondering about how the indicator warning of my MKIII commando does work...

According to the standard electrical diagram (casual bulbs fitted, no LED),
standard warning diagram
when left or right front and rear indicators are activated, I am wondering about current indicator warning bulb return way to earth .

  • Is the circuit closed by mean of the 2 opposite non operated bulbs (front and rear)?
  • In such a situation how come they do not bright unless tungsten filaments are about 0 ohms resistors? They should ...

Another question if you don't mind.
Does a "LED warning light tweaker"
LED Warning Light Tweaker
does correspond to the diagram modification you mention within your article ?
LED Indicator Warning Dagram

Looking forward to hear from you !
All the best. Jérôme

Yes, some people call the diodes a "tweaker"

It is exactly what I show in my diagram.

 

If you go this route, make sure you order for the correct positive earth setup.
...otherwise you will have to cut through the heatshrink sleeving and resolder the diodes.

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The original idea for the indicators using 2X21 Watt lamps each side is that the warning bulb being only 2W (low current) gets its earth return via the low resistance (when cold) of the twoX21W lamps on the other side.
Hence when you go to LED this sytem does not work. So we have a 'normal' circuit to earth with a new LED warning lamp, but it needs a diode feed (tweeker) from each side of the indicators to make it work.

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Thank you Alan for your post.

When you say "but it needs a diode feed (tweeker) from each side of the indicators to make it work.".
Does it correspond to Grant Tiller electical scheme (down below) were 2 casual diodes are represented ?Does the "dark dual diodes add-on" on scheme correspond to the wired item photo ?
Would you know which type of diode to be used; "1NA ..." ?
Regards.
Jérôme
 

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Hello,
Another question concerning LED conversion on my 1977 MKIII Commando.
I just bought from the NOCSHOP a LUCAS LED light bulb "L917LED" intended for the tail light (Rear 917 LUCAS)
I am very much surprised and disappointed whereas it does not work as it should (I already converted the original liquid acid battery by a gel acid battery to improve the electric start - I am not far to my 70's ...).

In fact when braking, light emission is maximum (front or rear or both selected), but I turn on lights (pilot / head), again light emission is also maximum. Therefore it is no braking warning from rear ...
How come ? We all know Commandos are positive hearth.

  • Should the L917LED device be a negative hearth ? (but it should not work ...).
  • Or is it a question of power; too strong current, need of some ballast in tail stop loom?

Thank you gentlemen for any advice.
Looking forward to hear from you.
Jérôme

In reply to by jerome_sfartz

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Just to be sure I'm understanding you correctly:

  • With ignition (only) on, the brake light switches on (and off) when the brake is operated
  • With ignition switched to lighting position, this switches on the brake light

(In the latter case, what happens to the tail lamp? Does it also come on?)

I am inclined to suspect a wiring mistake somewhere.

 

In reply to by jerome_sfartz

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Hi Jerome,

You may have seen:-

Due to the unusual configuration of the L917 rear lamp bulb holder, which points down towards the number plate clear lens, Lucas have developed a special LED bulb just for this application.
White LED chips face the number plate clear lens whilst red LED chips illuminate the rear lens, with the red light intensifying when the brake is operated.

This is a simple fit and forget bulb solution requiring no expensive LED boards or soldering to upgrade your L917 rear lamp.

PLEASE NOTE: Make sure the earth connector has good continuity back to the battery. This is critical for the bulb to function correctly.

So, take the lens cover off and look at the bulb. With lights off, press the brakes and the red LED's illuminate. 
Turn the lights on and the red LED's should come on plus the white ones.
Now press the brakes, the red LED's should now get brighter.

Note the Please Note, if the earth is dodgy, it could easily give the symptoms you are seeing.

 

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All Led are polarity conscious. When you buy them are MADE for a particular polarity of earth which you specify when you buy them. If they they are made for a motorcycle then they need to work. If they do not work then they are not fit for purpose.
BUT if the wiring of your bike is not in good order then the wiring will need sorting, earths need to be correct and 50 year old wiring will NOT be much good.

In reply to by alan_osborn

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Hi Al,
However, the L917 bulb is:-
Dual polarity so can be used with both positive and negative ground systems.

Jerome - Please look at my reply to you just above this one. not obvious with the way the system orders responses.

Tony

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Some LED can be configured to be Positive or Negative Earth, but not by Lucas as the Lucas company finished in the 1980s. The items you buy in a Lucas box these days are made in the far east under the Wassel name, mostly these products work ok.

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The bulb being discussed here is specific to the Lucas 917 lamp unit 'cos it has both white and red components.
Even so, it's difficult to see how an LED replacement for a 380 bulb can be compatible with both negative & positive earth wiring - I suppose you could split the 12V in half (6-0-6) and route accordingly with some clever internal circuitry, which might justify the price.

This lot https://www.feked.com/lucas-12v-led-stop-tail-lamp-bulb-917-type-rear-light.html say it's negative earth only. And that looks like the one in the NOC shop. Unless anyone knows better, I'd say this LED bulb is not suitable for positive earth electrics.

And, as a personal note, I can't see much advantage in reducing the power consumption of the tail light from 5W to 1.8W, saving a whole 3W. Might last longer but you can buy 8 x 380 bulbs for one of these LEDs.

Here is the note for WW13101 straight off the Lucas/Wassell website:

Lucas LED Stop/Tail Bulb.
12V, specially designed for the Lucas L917 Rear Lamps.
Can only be used on both Positive and Negative ground systems.
Power consumption: Rear lamp - 1.8W,Brake light intensity - 620 lm.
Please note :- Due to the unusual configuration of the Lucas L917 rear lamp bulb holder which points down towards the number plate clear lens, Lucas have developed a special LED bulb just for this application.
White LED chips face the number plate clear lens whilst red LED chips illuminate the rear lens, with the red light intensifying when the brake is operated.
This is a simple fit and forget bulb solution requiring no expensive LED boards or soldering to upgrade your L917 rear lamp.
Important :- Please make sure the earth connector has good continuity back to the battery.
This is critical for the bulb to function correctly!

...it seems to contradict what the boys at Feked are saying.

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On the MK3 the best lamps to replace are the headlamp bulb - use a modern version that is the same length as the standard H4, sometimes these are called compact versions. Next is the tail light, but use an LED tail light board and not a bulb. I would not bother with the indicators, yes they use some power but with a decent charging system and big battery like that on the MK3 there is no point as the indicators are only used briefly - it keeps everything simple. 

 



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