The NOC going down a slippery slope

A club of grumpy old men perhaps, Gino.

• old - well yes. But when I attended South London branch meetings in the 70s on my Commando, there was no shortage of grey hair on show either. As to younger members, I'd direct your criticism towards Norton Motors - I don't see current Norton offerings appealing to today's 20-something like the Commando did to me.
• rich - maybe one or two but for the majority, as 'boomers', I suspect we're merely comfortable; mortgage paid, kids left home etc.
• a week's wages - on the current minimum wage a 40 hour week brings in £416. A quick glance has the national rally at £60 and the international rally at £100, for the weekend including camping.
• shipping bikes - you and I have both loaded bikes into a van to take them somewhere and ride around in circles. Don't think we can criticise someone else for their indulgence.

Gino,

Today's youth doesn't really do the rally scene like the early '70's. As a member of Dean Valley MCC in Halifax we used to put on a mid-summer rally, Dalesman Rally, and the mid-winter rally, Rallyman's Rally. Other bike clubs did the same, avoiding date clashes, so we could all go rallying every weekend around the UK in all weather's. Fun on our mostly modest and heavily loaded Japanese or Eastern European bikes.

I'm still in a geriatric DVMCC, still putting on Dalesman and Rallyman's, but most of the old MC clubs are long gone and the rally scene is not pulling in the young ones. Even us older ones prefer a bed with a roof over it. 

I'll be dragging the tent out and going slowly to Tossa de Mar on the byeways of France and Spain. Hoping for dry weather. To me, the journey is as attractive as the event. 

If the journey is too much, I can see the attraction of shipping the bike to the nearest airport. Especially if holiday leave is running short. 

Be great if more than 5% of members attend. 

Peter

The club can't help it if younger members don't join the club. it is not only the NOC that is suffering, all marques and clubs are seeing a similar issue. Before 'youngsters' can go to a rally they need to have an interest in and wish to ride a motorcycle, then brand loyalty will follow and then the attendance at rallies. The club tries hard to gain more members, but sadly there is no magic wand. 

This fact 'youngsters' don't ride Nortons is nothing to do with Norton Motors, that is a company total unconnected with the Norton Motorcycle Company Ltd who I doubt will never make a motorcycle that will a, be attractive to a youngster, and b, be a price a youngster could afford, though TVS Motor has launched it's range of cheap bikes in France recently. 

Its up to Dads and Grandads to get those youngsters to join in with runs out and going to events . both my sons ride bikes and have been with me to the isle of man (4 times ) and get to ride my bikes ,both are also into Classic cars and can do the spanners .They will get my old bikes one day.

I'm trying to get my two interested.  They help me on events, but Government has made the training process into a trial to discourage new riders.  The electric 'bicycle' is the machine of choice for young hooligans - no licence, no tax, no insurance, no visible identity behind the facemasks, no 20mp speed limits, and free use of the pavements to evade traffic jams.  What's not to like? 

I'll re-ignite this thread because I think club and bike preservation is extremely important, but a few club stands didn't even attempt to engage in conversation with me / about my bike at Bristol Classic show at the weekend.
My perception of the public looking in, is that the clubs seemed more engaged in their own little tea parties than to be open and inviting. 
And without younger interest (even younger than me and I'm just 54!), the scene dies.  As does preservation of the history of marques.
Even my other half commented a couple of times about how unwelcoming and 'rude' some clubs were - after I'd been brushed off, including this one sadly.
Maybe the scene is now a load of rich guys who have forgotten how to have fun....
There were a few youngsters there....couldn't see much for them either....
Sitting on a bike for a photo...costs money...I love kids asking to sit on my bike at bike night...its how the passion starts.

Paul's post is a timely reminder about the importance of engaging with people at shows, I believe that our club is good at this, but it's easy to slip into talking to old friends that you see maybe a couple of times a year. I have often been in a position at shows where someone wants to have a long conversation whilst others struggle to get a look in.It is often the same at Branch meetings. I have known many of the people in my branch for 25 years, we are obviously a bit of a clique, not by intention but it's the way it is. As for Gino's original post I don't think that becoming a Company has made any difference to our  offer to members. Other factors have. But this year, members will be able to go to the National Rally in Bristol for £32 including camping. Modestly priced food will be available on site.

As a Bristol Branch member ( not at this years show) I think Paul's experience is unfortunate and not typical. The Bristol Branch team at the show have, in my experience, always been good at engaging with the visitors and have usually recruited new members at the show.

However, it is the case that if it is busy, it is not always easy for a small team to be able to chat to and engage with a significant number of different parties within a short time span. People can feel a little left out and and ignored, albeit that is not the intention. Simply, in those circumstances it is something outside the the control of those members manning the stand.

Notwithstanding mine and Tony Lockwoods observations, I am sure this is something that will be discussed within the Branch with a view to identifying how these situations can be addressed for the future. I note from his comments elsewhere on the NOC forum that Paul has a Dommie delux. The Bristol Branch Chairman also runs a Dommie delux. I'm sure he'd be happy to contact Paul if he would like a chat.

A stand of gleaming bikes staffed by geriatrics has little or no appeal. Stick in an obviously well-used bike and people stop and look. 
We need to make the point that our bikes are not just sculptures for staring at in quiet contemplation. They are for riding.
I would far rather spend a day riding my Norton than hanging around in a mob of bikers eating over-priced burgers.

Things may have changed, we see quite a few 'youngsters' that want a MK3 Commando when they progress off the A2 licence, so there is some good news. Here at AN we have attended quite a few shows, but strangely found that when attending a classic british motorcycle show it is generally more quiet. We think this due to the fact those attending know about the bikes and who we are so have no real reason to stop and talk. 
The shows that were not classic british motorcycle themed we have far more enquiries, 'My dad has one of those and is too frail to ride' or 'I have inherited one of those and didn't realise that that you could still get spares' so it sometimes it is more beneficial doing the odd show away from the classic british motorcycle scene. Many of the youngsters I talk to weekly are generally those that have inherited a Norton, so there is some continuity. 
The price of bikes may not have helped in recent years, they have been expensive but now they are coming down in price which might tempt some younger owners into the classic Norton fold. 
AN as a business it is vital we try and encourage more into Norton ownership or classic motorcycle ownership more widely, likewise the club has a parallel need to have more members. Can these numbers be increased? I think so, at the moment there are huge numbers of bikes being held by just one owner, yes, call them collections though impressive to have a collection of a dozen or 120 classic bikes just means that there are anything from 1 to 119 potential owners out there that are not members. Thankfully we see more of these collections being broken up in recent years. But what about all the other bikes, I have looked at shipping figures to dealers and abroad and despite that many bikes have been repatriated there must be over 35% of bikes shipped to the North American market still out there that are in the back of sheds and barns doing nothing. 
I also have an advantage that I can see who owns Nortons by post code, and for something like the Solent Branch catchment area then considering we have a good number of members attending monthy it is below 10% of those in the area that own Nortons, I would imagine this is the same eleswhere.   
if I attend a weekly local meet at a cafe or pub where the car park is packed with plastic, I get more interest in my bike than I do at classic bike shows, so when away from the classic scene there is interest. 

I'm looking forward to taking mine to Poole bike night on the Quay - mostly plastic bikes but a good turnout of classics most weeks. 

Over the last 2 or 3 years I've not seen a Dom DL so looking forward to chatting to the youff of today about it and why I own it.

Thats what biking is about, right? :)

I'm afraid the current "show" scene leaves little to stimulate members, young or not so. Displaying a parade of shiny "as new" machines that are not for purchase creates an atmosphere of a sale room of the unobtainable.  

The purpose of the show should be addressed and made clear to exhibitors.  I used to go to the Bristol show but after two visits you realise it's copy paste year on year.

More examples of riding, repairing and rescuing dilapidated machines. Practical skills and methods, "how to" demonstrations of the simplicity of the maintenance and upkeep of these machines.   How to kick start, how to adjust a carb, the voltage regulator, forks and what's inside them.... what it feels like to ride one.  The Joy of owning something you have been able to maintain, manage and ride to an event or meeting place. 

As an example the  forum repeats its answers to the same questions over and over because we are not addressing the issue in the right way, because change is not accepted easily. The facilities of a club and its website, judging by the topics that repeat on the forum it's clear members are not fully aware of the information that is available to them as part of their subscription. Too many times we repeat what was successful until the interest declines, and dies...

We try to get branch members to make sure they have a notice on or near the bikes, to describe what it is.  Casual visitors have little or no idea otherwise.  And if there's something to read, they stay longer and it's easier to start conversation
It's probably worth doing the same when parking at any bike gathering.

The last old bike I bought was my Navigator.  I decided I wanted a 350/500cc twin. A late C-range Triumph being my reference point.   Off to various classic bike shows I went to research a possible purchase.  In general it was difficult to engage the guys on the various stands in conversation,  interaction varied between the brief but polite to being, more or less, ignored.  

There was one exception, this was at the Bristol show, the NOC stand.  I got chatting to someone very knowledgable, obviously knew the lightweights well, also discussed whether an 88 might be better for me. 

I found the whole information gathering exercise rather depressing,  hardly surprising the general decline in the classic bike (and car) industry.  I think that clubs are , in general, not selling themselves at all well.  Perhaps some lessons from someone in the PR industry?  Could owners clubs get together and hire a professional to analyse the problem.  Then work out strategies to halt the decline?

I visit shows for another interest, it's in much the same situation, an ageing demographic and not much of a plan to deal with it.

Ps.  I chose the Navigator over T90/100 and BSA A50 because it was almost half the price!

A professional is not needed to analyse the situation, we know what the problem is but it is the solution to that problem which is needed. With current licencing laws making it an unattractive idea to have a motorcycle licence. Insurance makes using a motorcycle for commuting when young pretty prohibitive, so the problems are already identified, but the solutions to overcome them are more challeneging.