Hello,
I wonder if you knowledgeable folk can please advise me on which top yoke (aka handlebar clip?) would normally have been fitted to a 1952 International? The parts books suggest that part number B2/174 was fitted in conjunction with girder-fork style handlebar clamps. But general images on the web for 1952 models seem to show a top yoke with integral handlebar nounting lugs. To add to the confusion it would appear (I blame EBay) that several versions/part numbers of the long Roadholder 'integral' yoke exis to suit mid-50s ES2, 16H etc Are there different height versions perhaps?
I'd greatly appreciate any guidance on the matter. As a last resort I could just purchase one or two items and see what actually fits :)
Many thanks.
This type:
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Yoke differences.
Hi Nigel,
The first Roadholder forks had round sections on the yokes for the clamps, road models used iron clamps with 1 single centre bolt and the Manx used aluminium clamps with 3 bolts. In late 1949 the road models changed to the above type in Michael's post, while the Manx continued with the 3 bolt type until the featherbed frame was introduced. All the long Roadholder fork geometry of this period is the same (except the 500T) so either will fit, but the above photo is the correct one for a 1952 Inter and the other road models.
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some success
Thank you for the responses, really helpful. Luckily I've quickly found some roadholders which seem to have the correct top yoke (as shown in parts list) and the correct headlight brackets, see attached image. It begs the question though as to which version of headlight ears and top yoke are currently fitted, pls see images. Any ideas? Dominator?
Interestingly the my new top yoke doesn't fit the existing forks for the reason that the forward throw (steering column -> stanchion) is around 1/4" shorter than on the existing forks. I expect the same will be true for the lower yoke.
So much for a quick fix! :) I think I'll rebuild the new forks in slow time and then do a complete swap-out
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Yoke differences.
Hi Nigel,
The headlight shrouds in picture 1 are correct for your 1952 Inter. The ones in picture 2 are from the late 50s as is the top yoke in picture 3. By that time the speedo was in the headlamp shell so the top panel was not needed. The early yokes are not parallel to each other to fit the existing older frames, the later yokes you have fitted are parallel as the last of the lugged frames had been re-designed by AMC prior to the ES2 and Model 50 going into featherbed frames. The previous owner might have changed these to make the steering quicker on the Inter. You will need to change these as a pair, but you could use the leg assemblies in the replacement yokes. Featherbed short Roadholder yokes will not fit the gardengate lugged frame.
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changing the yokes
You are better off with yokes giving more trail than going for less - the 500T yokes move the front wheel backwards for more trail (and shorter wheelbase), and are reckoned to give better handling. This is the reason why many 500T machines lack their correct yokes - they have been taken for fitting to Manx for better handling.
The prototype 500T yokes were made in the McCandless workshop by cutting the flat part of the lower yoke off and re-welding it on the other side. It moves the stanchions back a lot. The forks were reassembled, the top yoke gently heated until it bent far enough for the lower yoke cross piece to meet the stem land, and then weld back together. Quite a few machines got this treatment in back-yard development.
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500T yokes.
Hi Nigel,
Attached are a couple of photos to follow up on Paul's post. The first of Geoff Duke shows his Manx fitted with 500T yokes and you can see the petrol tank is abbrieveated at the front to allow fork turning clearance because of the close fitting yokes, if you had a standard tank there would be no steering lock. Also notice the front wheel is 19" diameter which also quickens the steering.
The second photo shows a standard set of yokes on the right showing how much angle difference there is from top to bottom. The yoke on the left is from a 500T showing the reverse bottom lug. The top 500T lug is packed away at present so I can't show that, but it is very much cropped than the standard top which would need cutting and shutting to make it fit.
I have used these yokes on my Model 18 vintage racer and it is an improvement on short circuit tracks, but you can easily "tuck in" the front wheel on poor surface conditions. High speed handling may be affected as I don't think anyone used these in the TT races.
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early v late yokes
Hi Richard, Paul,
Thank you for the input, interesting, especially the crazy steep 'reversed' yoke arrangement! As I'm only going to be using the Inter for fast-ish A & B road fun the 'standard' yoke arrangments should suit my needs. For interest I've attached an image of the front end set-up. The bike was apparently raced through the 50s (including IoM) and maybe that's when it acquired the later forks.
The fitted yokes have a steering stem offset of 2 1/4" and the legs appear to have some rake forward rather than being parallel to the steering stem. The wheelbase (spindle to spindle ctc) is 56 1/4" with the rear axle around half way along the adjustement slots.
The spare forks (I assume correct for 1952) have a top yoke offset of 2" but have a greater rake angle and it looks as if the wheelbase would then be near to the existing 56 1/4", or maybe slightly more. In appearance both lower yokes seem to be identical and I'd guess that the steering columns were simply fitted at differing angles corresponding to the top yoke in use.
I think I'll just re-commission the bike as is and see how it all feels before making any significant changes. That pre-supposes the engine will fire up and be in sound condition of course.. :)
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