E10 fuel

The introduction of ethanol should be of great concern by anyone with classic or vintage machinery.

E-10 is 10% ethanol and the requirement and desired goal of the blender prior to delivery. You might expect a slight increase in all aspects of FA fuel air mixture. idle cutaway needle and main jet, though not huge.

The biggest concern is two fold. First the ethanol in E-10 is hydroscopic and absorbs water and will become toxic and corrosive to metal. Second ethanol, on it's own, is very bad on plastics, rubber and especially polyester resin tanks.

The awaited E-15 in the USA will render outdoor power equipment and most motorcycles into quickly damaged state and no longer covered by warranty repairs.

E-10 over 30/90 days old can often be unuseable and very hard to start and run engines

... we used to use up to 20% ethanol in our petrol (Cleveland Discol and others) in the 1950s with no ill effects. There are however a number of other substances in modern petrol which are pretty horrible stuff.

Many of us enjoy a soothing dram of ethanol after a hard day and my tubes are still in good order.....

Whether the use of food crops to make the ethanol is a good idea is of course another question.

...We've been living with that putrid brew for 40+ years here in the colonies.  Massive federal farm subsidies to anyone and every industry involved with mixing corn with dinosaur carcasses, massive federal $$ incentives to grow corn, powerful agricultural lobbyists who promise $$ to politicians that will benefit these politicians' agricultural states.  And no just ethanol in today's gasoline that damages motorcycle parts >>> http://www.idph.state.il.us/cancer/factsheets/gasoline.htm#:~:text=A%20typical%20gasoline%20mixture%20contains,added%20to%20improve%20car%20performance.

E10 is hydroscopic and rusts everything creating debris, particulate, breaks down anything that is not designed to withstand ethanol and can begin degrading as soon as 3 weeks if not kept in a temp controlled environment.  E10 is not designed to sit extended periods of time.  I speak from experience having seen the damage it does working for motorcycle dealerships and repair shops.

I have a 15 gallon steel drum that i keep 91 octane ethanol free gasoline for use around town and for sitting in my bikes i only ride periodically.  On a road trip, i don't worry about it, when i get home i fill the tank with ethanol free.  With ethanol, important to always keep tank full, if you don't, ethanol will create a rust ring at the fuel level kept in tank.   Ethanol free can be purchased at a marina if you have one close by, or a fuel distributor, both of which we have in my area.

Many reproduced parts are made to withstand ethanol having been in use now for decades, but there are still stories.  Ask a vendor if their parts withstand ethanol.

Any fuel with ethanol in it is VILE STUFF.

Most of my bikes runs on alkylate ethanol free petrol. Use 95, 98 and 102 octane. At least last two fillings for the season.  Only use ethanol containing fuel for the long distance touring Vincent and the modern fuel injected bike.

In Sweden standard 95 is now E10. Premium 98 is still E5. Don't know how it is in the UK.

In some  of the Uk Esso Synergy plus  is availiable without ethanol (although the pumps will have an E5 sticker to confuse you.). All the other premium fuels are E5. Standard Unleaded  soon to be E10.  

All the other premium fuels are E5...?

Has anyone tested BP 97 from the midlands recently to confirm this?

Norman, it is quite possible that BP Ultimate, outside of the Ethanol zones is E0. The problem is that BP won't say other than it is 'an evolving situation,' which doesn't do their sales from me a lot of good.

A few years ago I asked a BP tanker driver in Suffolk, filling up the tanks if Ultimate contained ethanol.. He looked down his check list and said NO.

I'm about to write to ESSO again for an update. Politicians like to make things mandatory for other people and Ethanol is no exception. The alternative for me will be Anglo American 4* Leaded racing fuel. 

I was quite happy with lead free E0 with a bit of redX lead substitute but if no E0 then there is more than one alternative to stop the ethanol damage I will not suffer again, since I was caught out by stealth in 2006/07. Older and wiser. I have been campaigning to save E0 for many years.'

If you're worried about it you can remove it fairly easily - but a bit fiddly and some may even say dangerous as you're playing with volatile petrol!  Best done outdoors then!  You need a semi-translucent 5 gallon container and some coloured water.  Put say 4 gallons of E petrol into the container, calculate how much ethanol is in it - e.g. E5 is 5% so measure out 5% of 4 gallons (1.28 pints) of coloured water to the petrol and give it a shake.  Leave it standing overnight and you should see the coloured water with Ethanol at the bottom. Up to you how you syphon out either the water or the petrol.  There are various methods shown on YouTube and other sites.

As the octane rating will now be lower you need to add Castrol Valvemaster to the mix.

I gave some context to the reason why currently some of the super grades have Ethanol and some do not. It’s here:  https://www.nortonownersclub.org/search/node?keys=esso%20synergy.

Going forward, there looks like there will be at the best a minimum of 5% in the super grades.  We have no choice, we will just have to get on an manage it....   Your Norton will run ok on 5%, just fill up with super, add some ethanolmate ( or your favourite brand) ride regularly or manage your fuel left over during lengthy non riding periods.  While all this is going on, Boris and his gang will be dreaming up the next hurdle for us to deal with! 

Following Lionel's comment on how to remove ethanol be aware that in the UK there are 8 pints in a UK gallon so 5 gallons is 40 pints so 5% is 2 pints. 

George

I am very carefull to only use the Esso fuel,  My 1960    99 tank has little rust.  Just checked the Tank of the Atlas that son rides (he is not so carefull)    Tank horridly rusty even though his garage is insulated and dry. My garage is well damp ,but the fuel seems to protect.

Hi all, 

   Just to stir up the hornets nest.

   I bet those bikes didn't last 5 minutes using that stuff !

Those were the days  when  bikes were not owned as toys but were  workhorses  and earned their keep  every day.  Fuel got used  ,not left lying in tanks for months .After looking through  the H&S  literature  I also know  that todays Ethanol  brews contain  an amazing array  of nasty  chemicals  that  we have never heard of,  likely far more toxic  than  anything in the past . Possibly its these combinations combined with eth that are the villans  of  corrosion and short  fuel life before degradation.

Pinking on a 7:1 compression ratio is hardly a recommendation for the fuel being used.

Hi John/Robert,

   I think the only better commercially available fuel in those days was 50/50 petrol/benzole race fuel which wouldn't be the every day rider's fuel, and with knowing now that benzine is a carceogen, it's good that it was not used every day. Using a very high percentage of ethanol would allow a compression ratio of 10:1 or more but you wouldn't get 93 mpg. Whatever type of hydro-carbon fuel is used is going to be nasty, one way or another, and I find the current pump fuel to be a very effective weed killer. I think we will have to trust the scientists on this and hope we all live long enough to enjoy our Nortons.

Has anyone tried hanger a tea strainer full of those little bags of silica gel inside the fuel filler? I wonder if that would keep tank humidity down? Or would silica gell do something horrible to the fuel formulation?

Hi David, I put a strip of draughting tape over the tank cap breather to inhibit the cycling of moist air into the tank.  There are dangers with this as the tank can become pressurised by fuel  movement /sloshing around and heating  ,which will test the mettle of your tank and  petrol tap.  Have to keep an eye on it.!.

" today's Ethanol  brews contain  an amazing array  of nasty  chemicals  that  we have never heard of,  likely far more toxic  than  anything in the past "

Absolutely, and it's my contention that this is liley to be the problem not the ethanol as such. For some unknown reason, so many motorcyclists seem resolutely opposed to anything which can be seen as vaguely "green". Perhaps the recent weather events in northern USA / Canada, Germany and China may help them understand. Or not......

Hot weather, cold weather, wet weather, mild weather are what we have lived with all our lives while in the UK, 1976 remains the hottest Summer on record, despite what ever the establishment Met Office spin is put upon it. Weather does not = climate... (Only 30 consecutive years and there has not been any statistically significant global warming since 1998) Like another issue I would be off topic to mention, what you and your like are trying (successfully) to create is fear. Fear = control!

Science, these days, consensus science and especially anything remotely connected to Green is political and believe me, comes at a financial cost. Look at the CCC and the very wealthy people on it. Check out the Chairman (Diben alias Selwyn Gummer and all the mega rich hangers on.

The plan is to have everything electric where via your not so smart meter you can be turned off remotely. Upping the ethanol content will see more and more petrol engines ruined and off the road. As well as the damage it causes to the fuel system it delivers less MPG = more visits to the pumps. So what good does it do?  I know, Ian, you think you are saving 'The Planet' but really protecting the evil Green agenda.  Hang on to your wallets, heat pumps at the ready!!!

Online are the HMRC quarterly records of fuel manufactured, on this can be seen just how much ethanol is used. It is a small amount compared to the fuel made, nowhere near the quantity to even achieve E5. For the UK to actually have E5 & E10 at the correct strength we would actually need to import it as a nation.

From what I can gather, the UK does not create enough ethanol as by-product to satisfy its own needs. To manufacture or import it to add to fuel does not make sense.

I suspect many of the stickers on the pumps are just for compliance. 

Ashley,

I'm sure you are correct.

Down here in Oz, the stickers on the browsers state that E10 can contain UP TO 10% Ethanol. My local garage can't tell how much as it isn't specified on the m.s.d.s. (Material Safety Data Sheet).