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Front brakes on Singles

Submitted by david_cooper on Thu, 17/06/2021
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Singles

Is the prewar one-piece front hub on the Inter steel and not cast iron? Is that why my Inter front brake is not as good as my 16H? If so, there's no solution that will make up the difference, is there? I'm hoping my new Ferodo shoes will bed in better but I can send the old ones off for better linings if there is no improvement.

Submitted by robert_tuck on Thu, 17/06/2021

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Hi David,  I have bought  " famous" branded  replacement shoes and they turned out to be 100% worthless.    I think they were made in the far east.  Never again.  Get them relined in the UK.

Submitted by david_cooper on Thu, 17/06/2021

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Now I have new shoes in the brake I can send the old ones off.  I didn't want to lose the bike off the road for several weeks in the short summer we might have!  I've not identified the metal - I can imagine in the 1920's at Brooklands that they gained more lap speed from low unsprung weight than from good brakes.  Surely that did not apply to the TT did it?  They did happily race with tiny brakes not all that many years before the 30's.

 

...rarely had front brakes being an "oval".  I'm not 100% sure, but I think Harold D's Lap record in 38 was on a TT track that was still unsealed in parts.   

For safe brake linings on the road I use the softest available from "Safetec".  They are not subject to high frequency, high temperature  braking and provide instant retardation regardless of the drum temp.   

 

Cheers

Jon

Submitted by george_farenden on Thu, 17/06/2021

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My take on it.

Small brakes were ok as many of the roads were still dirt/cinder surfaced. Add in the available grip from the tyres of the day and the weight bias/steering geometry of the day, then smaller brakes were perfectly ok.

Thinking modern, it was only in the late 80's/early 90's that 'off road/trail bikes' went to discs. Small sls brakes were deemed perfectly adequate. 

Regards, George. 

Submitted by mikael_ridderstad on Thu, 17/06/2021

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My WD16H has a really poor front brake. Tried all the tricks I know. Only infinitesimal improvement. Almost as bad as my first bike, a 1930 Harley.

The Manx has a really good rear brake, but the 2LS front is horrendous after a few laps.

The Venom, the B40WD and the Comet brakes are decent but not impressive.

Both Victor Specials has almost too good brakes. Needs good braking technique not to lock front on paved roads. So I understand why they kept drum brakes so long on dirt bikes.

Hopefully the 650SS renovation project which came with a Ceriani 230mm 4LS will brake.

 

 

Submitted by david_cooper on Thu, 17/06/2021

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I'm beginning to suspect small differences in alloy content of the drums...I.e. something we cannot control. My 16H shoes are riveted. They have plenty of thickness but not much left before the rivet heads. I don't want to change them! I'm going to fit the shoes I just took out of the Inter, and that might give me a better idea whether the issue is with shoes or drums. Of course the surfaces won't fit...!

I wonder if fixed pins are a good idea. Norton used the same shoes from 1930 to the last Commando with drum rear brakes, and stayed with pin support at one end.

Submitted by david_gibson on Thu, 17/06/2021

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hi Dave

 

I used to have to make an appointment to stop my '35 Inter, then get my boots on the road and then take avoiding action in order to come to a halt. The brakes would pass the MOT test when it was a requirement, in the good old days. New shoes, drums and shoes skimmed to match did not improve matters much. Then I discovered Villiers brake shoe relining service, £21.99 and 7 day service from memory, specify for road use. I can now (almost) lock the front wheel at speed and can certainly stop efficiently using both brakes, for the first time. The bike and I both bear scars from poor brakes during the Irish National Rally, never again. I believe that the brake drum is getting a bit thin and may distort but at least I can now stop quite efficiently. All three of my Nortons now use Villiers brake shoes at the front end. 

Submitted by david_cooper on Thu, 17/06/2021

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Dave - thanks - as you know we've had a chat about this.  I bought new Ferodo shoes complete from Russell Motors because I don't want the bike off the road in June.  I'll send the spare shoes I now have for re-lining anyway.

Submitted by david_cooper on Sat, 19/06/2021

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Update...duly fitted Ferodo shoes as sold by Norton parts suppliers  (Russells in my case) and tested this morning. Pleased to find a big improvement, and they aren't bedded in yet. So I'm no longer actually frightened going down hills. The old shoes are on their way to Villiers Services for relining. I might try them when they return, and report back.

Thanks for all comments.

Submitted by philip_hannam1 on Sun, 20/06/2021

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I trust that Dave's next report re. front brake shoes is not from a Hospital bed. I would suggest fitting a set of paniers with a boat anchor in one side and a parachute in the other.

Submitted by david_cooper on Sun, 20/06/2021

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Thanks for your kind words, Phil! I'm considering adding a bicycle rear disc brake to my veteran. I wonder if I'll be drummed out of the Sunbeam Club? I don't think I can face going down Reigate Hill in the rain again on that thing.

 



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