Mornin' All,
I seem to be having problems with my charging circuit on tickover, perhaps you can suggest the most likely culprit? I'm on 12v with a recent rewire, Pazon ignition, rectifier and battery. The rotor and stator however are original Wipac. The symptoms are:
I begin my test in the garage with a charged and rested battery reading 12.6v across the terminals. Fuel on, bit of choke and Ethel starts first or second kick - so far so good, I should quit here! After a few moments I have a steady tickover but the reading has already dropped to 11.85v. When I rev the engine the voltage reading rises reassuringly and I can get 14.6v momentarily, but immediately on returning to tickover the reading falls back and steadily drops further. After 5 mins of tickover its down to 11.74v, then after 10 mins its 11.6v and finally after about 15 mins the tickover gets lumpy and the bike stalls on 11.58v.
I've been slow to notice this problem, perhaps because when I ride the bike I'm revving the engine and as a result the battery has received some charge, thereby masking the problem. It's stalled on occasions when out on a ride, usually when stationary at junctions and lights, but I had incorrectly thought was down to a worn carb, which I've now replaced with a brand new monobloc.
So, chaps, based on the above where would you start? I've read quite a few of the many other forum threads on the alternator, and am inclined to point to the old Wipac stator as prime suspect, but I confess I am no auto-electician so may be completely wrong there. In a way I'd be glad if it was the stator, as the other threads suggest a common cure is to replace it with a Lucas RM21 which, although apparently not a perfect match, can be made to fit and perform well.
Help!
Nick H
They don't charge at…
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That's Normal ! Dan
That's Normal ! Although mine doesn't stall but I dont leave it ticking over for 15 mins!
Dan
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Yep, the battery goes flat -…
Yep, the battery goes flat - I was just trying to figure out why.
If a tickover voltage reading below 12v is to be expected then I have my answer. Thanks for your advice chaps, much appreciated. I'll have to wring the throttle a bit more!
Nick
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Nothing to do with......
Nothing to do with 'wringing the throttle' a 5Ahr battery if charged will run the bike on tickover with no charging for at least an hour. The battery is flat when you start this bike or far too small for the machine.
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Or it's a failing battery,…
Or it's a failing battery, which appears to charge but has lost its storage capacity.
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Thank you Michael and Alan…
Thank you Michael and Alan. It's a 1 year old Yuasa YB5L-B 5Ah so hopefully not too small, but possibly not holding enough charge.
I'm curious, roughly what voltage does the Wipac alternator typically put out at tickover?
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Wipac output NOT measurable.
The AC generated by Lucas and Wipac alternators have no meaningful output you can measure (with our cheap meters). At any speed. You can try measuring the DC voltage at the rectifier (NOT alt/reg) but as soon as you load it will have an unknown result-depends entirely on the state of the magnets and the revs. And of course the state of charge of the battery you are trying to use to run the bike and be charged at the same time.
A one year old 5AHr should be ok to run this bike IF it is charged in the first place.
This bike should have 12V or a bit more at the battery just above tickover. If it has a rectifier then it should be fitted with a Zener (as a regulator) so there is the chance that the rectifier is faulty.
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At idle they generate very…
At idle they generate very little. Sometimes the alternator can power electronic ignition with lights off at under 1,000 rpm, sometimes not: it's marginal!
It's what was accepted at the time. Headlights were only used on the open road, when it was so dark that they were needed to see your way.
On lit streets, it's more likely that the pilot light would be used.
Points ignition would keep working even if the battery got very low.
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At idle they generate very little. ....
... so how does the emergency start facility work?
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Emergency start Navigator and Jubilee
If your switches and harness are as Norton intended.....
When running with no lights the second output from the alternator is off. With one output there is enough charge to run ignition and charge battery.
Select emergency, and you switch in the second, full, alternator output. With no lights there should be enough alternator output to start the bike with flat battery, on the kick-start.
Riding with lights off while on emergency start switch position will overcharge your battery, soon boiling away the electrolyte.
Voltage regulation on these two lightweight models is by switching in or out.... 2nd alternator output.. A resistance wire... Or neither. Depending on light switch position and ignition switch position.
Clever stuff.
Peter
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Only works for original 6v…
Only works for original 6v and wiring loom for jubilee and Navigator! No good for12v (see original post?)
GRAHAM
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Emergency start.....
The emergency start on the 6V alternator systems (using original alternator switching as regulation) puts the full output of the alternator to the ignition sytem, and with a bit of luck you get a start. One system even put the alternator output direct to points, (horrible but might have worked). 50 yrs on the wiring is tired, the connectors are even more tired, the magnets are getting weaker, but if your 6V original Emergency works, then what a lucky chap you are.
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"At idle they generate very…
"At idle they generate very little. ....
... so how does the emergency start facility work?"
I've had bikes that would start and run splutteringly on EMG and I've had bikes that wouldn't start on that setting.
I've read Lucas' own description of the emergency start system and failed to understand it, so I can't explain it well, but part of the principle is to exclude all loads except the ignition.
As Alan says, I think sometimes they bypassed the voltage drop of the rectifier.
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Thanks both..
.. but I was responding to the statement that there was no output at idle speed (which is of course significantly faster than kickstart speed!).
I do understand how the 2 level alternator "regulation" is achieved which is why I've changed it on all the bikes originally fitted with it to a Zener regulated system.
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There isn't "no output" at…
There isn't "no output" at idle rpm. There's (usually) no charge to the battery at idle rpm because the alternator output doesn't reach a high enough voltage.
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They don't charge at tickover rpm!
Idling discharges the battery. A battery with greater amp hour capacity will keep it ticking over longer, but will still eventually get too flat.