Dommi Engine Removal

Some time ago there was a thread about ES2 engine install. Don't know if it is useful on twins.

https://www.nortonownersclub.org/node/9097

No Mike you have to remove the lot  see attachment .The easiest way is to remove all of the primary chain case outer and inner, and take the engine and gearbox out from the right hand side.Re fitting is the reverse. protect your frame with  lengths of water pipe foam insulation 

While its out check the centre stand ,you cannot remove it with the engine in.

 99 -23 jpg Photo of mine when it was ready to go back in

   Regards Ivor

hello if anything to go buy just  read the manual  the easy way  is the lay the bike on its side without the tank on and all oil drained  then is easy to un bolt and just lay the motor backward now you have removed the battery box and oil tank  more space and how would you think us female manages on our own then, we tend to use our grey matter  and work it our for our selfs   some of you should try it some times   it dose not hurt  Yours  anna J  

Engine sprocket nut is easier to remove before taking out the engine, I'm told.

The engine sprocket itself can be the hardest job  you may find. With a geniuine Norton 2 leg puller and a good whack it will usually break the taper. The puller is also usefull in pulling the mains roller inner off the crank.

If this is an 88/99  and you think its likely that stripdowns are going to be  regular(!)  you can slot the engine plates which will allow the motor to come out.  Don't think a good idea on a rip snortin 750 , Our Atlas has not been a problem with this mod (yet).

I don't have the Atlas in My garage at present  ,Not far away. Will get photo if poss. Can't remember if possible to slot plates with motor in situ!!.1 slot each side  Front lower mount? Someone will know.

Hiyah - I ususally slot the lowest holes that take the 5/16 inch stud that fixes the engine plates to the engine in the bottom forward position.  The cuts should be just off vertical facing a few degrees to the fore and as narrow as possible so that the stud just passes down. I also use washers with a larger o/d but remember that the studs, washers and nuts must still fit between the bottom frame tubes and the engine plates.  As the engine is lowered down have the nuts and washers pulled as far apart as possible but not so far that they foul the frame tubes.  The washers can get caught in the slots so it is fiddly.  When the bottom forward stud is in place push the two 3/8 inch studs in place and then the front engine plates should locate.  On slimline twin frames it may be necessary to remove the two lower rear engine plate to frame bolts and slightly undo the top two so that the whole unit will pivot slightly to the rear,  allowing the bottom of the front plates to  engage in the lower forward gusset mounting.  Then replace all the other studs and bolts.  Don't over tighten the 5/16 inch stud as it's easily stripped but have it tight enough to do its job and check it regularly for the first few rides.  Good luck, Howard      

A gen Norton puller is a very powerfull tool as it has a finer thread than most. Fitted so the legs fit right behind the sprocket and are properly parallel ,grease the nose and thread ,do not keep winding it on but a bit more after each whack ,heating the sprocket may help. hit too heavy and case damage is possible and its likely that the timing ball bearing will be damaged whatever you do.Watch out for flying sprocket.

The Norton one has always worked for me when 3 legged ones have fell apart, perhaps yours had  worn threads or not a pukka old stock shelley made one. For a time Russels had a casefull of the real deal.My instructions are for the thread starter who clearly is happy for help.

Robert , my two legged puller was a genuine Norton puller from Andover Norton and as a puller is not up to the job for which they sell it,if you have three legged pullers that fall apart i suggest you buy decent ones in the first place. In ths life you get what you pay for

Don’t fall out boys and girls - us newbies value your advice!

I bought a 1959 wideline Dommie 99 600cc in December 2019 - in boxes but (as it turns out) all the important tinwork present. The engine/gearbox/clutch went to Dale and he has done a great job - but it’s still on the shelf. From a Haynes and Roy Bacon’s book I finished a test build, without engine, buying parts and fasteners as I went. I managed to attend one East Mids meeting before Covid stopped all that... so I’ve been a bit short of advice and mentors. You guys have been invaluable as although I used to build race cars this is my first bike restoration.

So, it’s all now in bits again awaiting paint and when it comes back I need to tackle engine install. The lay down approach seems the best route.

just keep talking! As an exiled Yorkshireman now near Newark I would come along to an East Yorks meet just to meet Anna!

Take care all!

Steve

Mike; you been a member long enough to work out the responders. (Think there is a touch of lockdown tension creeping in).  Curious to know reason for removal, and if it is necessary?  I glean so much good knowledge here it’s like a school of old masters.  Let’s see what we can learn from each other?

cheers

Jon

Its amazing how snippets of new information can appear  and surprise ,  I am looking forward to the revised service notes that members are currently working on .  I did try to make a contribution ,but was totally defeated by the  IT  logic  .    Covid can really mess with you in so many ways.

If anyone is struggling to remove a Dommy Engine sprocket ,  a good copy of the PUKKA  Birmingham made NORTON  heavy 2 leg puller is sold by RGM under part number  067500   £22 .0 +vat and post. Well worth a place in your workshop.  Russels may also still have some orriginals ,but are not easy to contact.   

Oddly enough Andy does a kit for the AMC box so that you can remove it without removing the engine.  Exactly the opposite of what you want!  Just in case - its part number is FG51 and costs £19.50 +VAT.

Slotting the plates sounds a bit drastic to me but whatever solution you use, you will have to remove the engine and gearbox first.

Hi Mike

Ref your original question, yes I have always removed engine and left g/box in place.

Remove tanks, bat box, platform.

Before inner p/chaincase consider all high torqued nuts: g/box sprocket & crankshaft oil worm are left hand,

Camshaft and alternator rotor conventional right hand

Yes I've heard of laying bike down but never tried it.

No, don't like to cut slots in engine plates as too little metal.

Now (older / wiser) consider clutch holding tool, cl extractor, crank gear pullers essential. Not worth risking damage not using them.

Hope this helps

I was successful in getting my fully built up - head on, bottom end built, carb attached - engine in single handed using the laid down method. Thanks for the advice - much easier than anticipated and no fresh paint damage!

I now understand from the thread I will need a puller to remove the crank sprocket - RGM appear to supply. Is this correct?

I need to do this to get the chaincase backing plate installed.

I presume I will not be able to complete assembly of the chaincase front cover because I will be unable to torque up the refitted crank sprocket until final drive and rear wheel installed so I can lock crank movement?

Finally, do I need a puller to get the alternator rotor off - it is mobile on its shaft but will only come so far... like it’s on a taper.... or do I need to try harder?!

I would appreciate and advice you can offer.

I attach a pic of where I am - I’m not an engineer, rather an enthusiastic amateur on his first build from boxes so please keep it simple!!

1959 Dommi 99 600 Wideline.

Steve

Steve......well done for the right approach to spanner-work. Too often I have encountered owners who have worked on raised bikes without straps. Several of whom admitted to launching their bikes while undoing gearbox and crankshaft nuts. 

 Hi Steve and Ivor,  two very nice builds.  I am now thoughrilly  depressed.  My workshop is nowhere near as organised and tidy as yours. A lifetime of doing  everything myself and a reluctance to throwing anything away has caught up with me. Its time for a sea  change. First I have to sell a bike or two.

Thanks for replies guys... Despite my lack of engineering nouse I did spend many years building and racing cars (latterly bike engines prototypes) so I have made all the basic mistakes... a few times. But I always had a team mate who “did engines”! I appreciate him even more now! Now retired I like a tidy workshop... but like somebody said - all the gear - no idea.

Hoping for an expert to come along and give me a lead.

steve

Steve:

Are you from Liverpool or are you a Geordie?

I have never heard the word/term nouse!!!

Mike

Yorkshire - born and bred. Retired to Farnsfield near Newark. I really must say I’m looking forward to the resurrection of local club  meetings. These have been sorely missed as a source of advice!

Steve

... I have resolved all my issues reference pullers etc - and will get the alternator and clutch back on before moving to the rear wheel and final drive. It was helpful to write the problem down!

Steve

Is "nous" equivalent to the word "nout" used in other parts of the country?

Mike

Hi all Noccers.

Have you noticed that it's not so much wisdom that comes with age as weakness?

I wanted to do some work on the bottom end of the engine, new shells and bearing etc.so I needed the engine out.  I thought that if I removed all the fixings between the engine/ gearbox plates and the frame, apart from the two bolts at the upper rear of the rear plates, where it is attached to the cross tube, then after removing the front plate fixing, I should be able to pivot the whole engine/gearbox assembly  and get that annoying little bolt out..

Of course, I had to remove the primary chain cases etc, etc, and the foot pegs, centre stand mounting bolts and so on.  Before I started, I put a small jack under the crank case to support it while I was  releasing  all the frame/engine plate fixings.  When that was done I slackened the two pivot bolts a couple of turns and the gently jacked up the engine.  It worked!  the engine moved up an inch or so and I was able to get to the awkward nut and bolt and get it out along  with all the rest of the bolts that hold the engine in place.

I might add that I also removed the cylinder head and barrels, mainly to reduce weight, so it wasn't to difficult for a weakling like me to extract the crank case from the frame.

I left the bike propped up on the jack while fettling the engine  and when that was done I put it back in the reverse order.   And without another hernia!.

I hope that this approach might be of some use.

Keep safe,  Peter.

I seem to remember some years ago someone produced a 2 piece bolt that allowed removal of the engine with the box in place. You still needed to take the engine out first to fit it though so not much help in the first removal.