For my race project, I've acquired a Norton Dominator front wheel with a SLS brake plate. However, for racing a TLS would be the minimum requirement I think.
I've got three options to choose from if I'm quick, which is a luxury. Some options are more expensive than the other, but let's forget about that for now.
option 1: Triumph/BSA conical hub TLS
option 2: Triumph/BSA full hub TLS
option 3: Norton Commando TLS
I know drum brakes can be bad when messed with, but...
Question 1: which one would perform best when properly set up? I imagine fading problems by lack of cooling would affect them all equally.
Question 2: if a Triumph/BSA brake will perform significantly better, what would be needed to make it fit a Norton hub? It will have a different axle hole and might need some spacers, but would there be other alterations needed, like skimming the edge? And what about overlap, preventing water mist coming in?
I've been reading a lot of theory and thoughts, but value first-hand experience.
Thanks in advance for your comments!
Tim
I get to ride a few…
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Any input is welcome
Even if not a direct answer, any input is appreciated Robert. I know all drum brakes are sensitieve to a good set-up. Which is why a SLS can often outperform a TLS if the former is set up correctly and the latter is not. And you're right, brake lining material can make an immense difference. I remember chucking away brand new Vesrah brake plates once, just a week after fitting them, as the material was just rubbish compared to the old Ferodo ones that were fitted.
I must admit, your reaction was quite helpful in a way, as it remembers me to slacken the axle of my road going Model 50, apply pressure on the brake to center the drum and re-tighten the axle again while keeping pressure on the brake. I'm not very impressed with the stopping power and think that it will improve after that, as I didn't know the correct way when I put in the front wheel after changing tires. So thanks, it's on my today's to-do-list.
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I'm looking into adapting the Triumph plate
Hi Tim, The best twin leader in my opinion is the Triumph one. That being the one before the conical. There are two variants of backing plates, go for the one where the cable runs alongside the fork leg rather than the one with the big loop from the backing plate.
You will need to measure the width of the Norton shoes against the width of the Triumph shoes. Divide the difference and then slice this amount of either side of the Triumph shoes ( the Triumph shoes are wider). A band saw with a guide clamped at each end will work.
You will have to sleeve the hole in the backing plate where the axle goes. Then you will have to manufacture a stop for the backing plate to Norton slider. I'm thinking of a " T " shaped piece of aluminium so it will accept two button hole bolts drilled and tapped through the top part of the " T "and into the Triumph backing plate. Thus turning the anchor point on the backing plate from female to male. As your life may depend on it the anchor needs to be a very close fit into the backing plate and the aluminium of aircraft grade.
As the shoes are self centring they will take a bit of running in so the brake may disappoint at first. I am part the way there building one. Too many projects not enough time !!! good luck.
PS you will probably have to fit a spacer between the Norton bearing boss and the backing plate.
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That's very detailed
Cheers Andrew, that's very detailed and very well explained. A Haynes manual competitor.
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There seems to be some luck…
There seems to be some luck involved in the sense that different linings are so different in effectiveness, and the drum material probably has an effect. My Norton TLS is very effective and has been complemented by a surprised MOT inspector. I used to find the instructions to set up using two spanners was awkward. So I adjusted it off the bike by altering the length of the tie rod until both shows were just starting to be lifted by their cams at exactly the same moment. Then fit the wheel, grip the lever hard, and tighten the spindle. It only needs doing once with new shoes, and they should then wear in evenly. A big chamfer on the leading edges reduces snatch.
The drawback with mine is that it can snatch violently when first used from cold if it's been left unused for two long in a cold shed. I have to ride off slowly in a perfectly straight line with the brake held on until it stops squeaking.
Nobody much discusses extending the length of the actuator lever on the backplate. PO did this on one of my Singles. It should be an easy way to increase brake shoe pressure on the drum.
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Yes, a longer drum lever…
Yes, a longer drum lever helps, I have one on the 99, made in stainless and from one of our suppliers, Will most likely need a longer cable which you will have to make .
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triumph/ BSA
Most people don't recommend the TLS brake plate where the levers are pulled towards each other by the cable.
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It also helps...
... to have a 7/8" pivot distance on the handlebar lever.
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Something unexpected happened
Although I really should go with the Triumph/BSA option to hone my engineering skills, something unexpected happened. I spoke to someone who mentioned he had a Norton TLS brake laying around. And although he isn't known to sell ever, he offered. So I'm taking the lazy route and go for the Norton one.
Still, I do keep in mind the suggestions about the lever pivot distance. I made that change last year on my road going Model 50 and the difference was staggering with more brake power with less hand power and an immensive better feel.
I reckon I should reline the shoes with the best material I can find. But if they're very old and are still asbestos ones, I might be lucky I can leave them as they are. Only one way to find out.
Thanks all for the input. Very interesting!
Tim
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long lever
..
from Norvil, 5.5 inch rather than 4.5 inch , between centres.
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Cheers Jan
Once I collect my brake, I'll have a look into that!
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I get to ride a few different Nortons and the one with brakes that stop you is a std SLS Dommy . It has shoes re-lined by a guy from france who turns up at shows . Thats no help at all is it!.