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AMAL Premier arrived...

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Whilst I am familiar with Concentrics of yore, the Premier gives me some questions.  

Attached is pic taken from the lovely new color pamphlet that came with the Premier.

As per the this new color pamphlet, is the 2-piece brass/steel screw on LH (non-tickler) side of Premier now called the "Pilot Air Adjusting Screw"?  (pic attached).

The steel tapered screw on the RH (tickler) side of Premier is what I would normally identify as the pilot air adjusting screw (on tickler side) identified as such in old AMAL pamphlets of yore.  Logic would seem that the brass/steel screw with holes is an adjustable jet replacing the fixed jet in the old Concentric.  And the tapered steel needle screw is now simply an air screw that helps mix the AFR in concert with the new brass/steel screw which is is an adjustable jet.

The new pamphlet does not identify nor depict both screws, i.e., the steel screw -and- the brass/steel screw...  The pamphlet only shows 1 screw and as depicted, it is difficult to tell which of these 2 screws are actually depicted although i would say the screw depicted in the pamphlet, identified as "34" is on what appears RH side of carb, therefore the steel screw.  (I am suspecting the pictures in the color pamphlet are not depicting the Premier; in fact are depicting what is seen in the old AMAL pamphlets...)

In my Premier i see nothing that looks like a "Pilot Bush" nor a "Pilot Jet" as depicted in the pamphlet that came with my Premier...  That being said, i don't see a small jet that i would expect to see a number on it such as "30" or "25"...

Does the brass/steel screw in the Premier replace the pressed-in pilot jet seen in the "old" Concentrics?  My internet research reveals this brass /steel screw is called the "pilot jet" and bear no numbers on them, however apparently they come in a variety of sizes, i.e., 15, 17, 19, 21 etc.  https://www.classicbritishspares.com/blogs/news/amal-premier-pilot-jets-and-tunning 

Will appreciate very much your experienced thoughts.  Kind regards.

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.......adjust the steel screw and change the jet screw only if needed. I'm sticking with my Monobloc.

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...reading the cover of the pamphlet, it says it is for the Mk.1 Concentric, so i am guessing it does not cover the Premier. Appears that I may only need to replace the #200 main jet assuming the pilot jet is the correct size.  What i'm reading on the internet, the Premier is an improvement on the earlier Concentric; more tuneable with the adjustable pilot jet.  i need to better understand how the air needle on the right works with the pilot jet on the left.  When both are removed, i can see straight through.  

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You will see the pilot jet if fitted. The replaceable pilot jet (various sizes) is located in the feed passage at the end that terminates inside the float chamber.  I'm running on a 25 at present.  The fixed diameter bush that the pilot needle  controlled was the original solution, the variable adopted by Premier I believe. 

The screw works slightly differently as it does not enter the now "non existing" bush to meter the pilot air flow. 

If you get on the Burlen site they do a great booklet on the carburettor developments and all the  specs.

 I'll send you an excerpt on the weekend

Cheers

Jon

...Thanks you for your reply. 

i was just on the Burlen site, i entered their download site and found their "Color Runing Guide" which i downloaded. 

The other piece of literature i saw is the  "Hints and Tips" pamphlet which came in the AMAL box my Premier came in.  The "Hints and Tips" is a wealth of information, such the old b&w pamphlet that came with early Concentrics back in the day.  It seems clear to me that the "Hints and Tips" applies to the Mk.1 Concentric and not the Premier.

I also went into Burlen's "Technical" site which jogged my memory showing that removable pilot jet once the bowl is removed.  Burlen's technical article with it's explanations and many pictures is outstanding.  It's been a long while since I've been into a Concentric, so seeing Burlen's pic brought it all back

If there is another piece of literature that i am not seeing on the Burlen site, let me know; otherwise if the 2 pieces i mentioned above; we're good.  

As an aside, i have a pair of the earliest type Concentric that were once fitted to my Royal Enfield Mk.1A Interceptor.  These early Concentrics do not have the "button extension" on top of the tickler such as the Mk.1 Concentric has nor the removable pilot jet.  My '74 Commando has the Mk.1 Concentrics with the "button" atop the tickler; it's been 12 years since i was inside my Commando carbs, so i could not visualize the removable pilot...

The only thing i want to better understand with the Premier is how the adjustable pilot jet on the LH side works in conjunction the pilot adjusting screw on the RH side; this screw is directly in front of the tickler.  The old Concentric's were blocked off in the area where the adjustable pilot jet is now on the Premier.

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Just for info, the removable or changeable pilot jet was a feature of the 2-stroke version of the concentric. 4-stroke versions we all know and love had the fixed jet. 

Regards, George. 

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i rec'd the plastic float and new needle and had no leak on bench test.  Float chamber on carb, regardless of any position forward or aft the sucker leaked.  I decided to give up for the time being.  Will find a suitable box and put the aged gem away.

Installed the Concentric Premier and have the pilot screw dialed in for a steady even idle.  Tomorrow evening, i will go for a ride and see how the carburettor performs at the different throttle openings.

The leather washer pretty much solved the Tell Tale oil geyser.  There is nominal leak out of the tube, a bit more so from the top than the bottom.  I can live with it.  The bottom housing has a pretty good leak; i can live with it at least for the time being.  It seems I am closer than I have ever been to begin putting some time on the engine and get some miles smiles.

What oil do you fellows suggest for the gear box?

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What do you have in the engine? Handy to use the same to keep it simple, but it's not worth the expense of castor. I use monograde engine oil. Multi grade are designed to be relatively thin when cold. The gearbox doesn't get as hot as an engine so a multigrade will be thinner than a monograde at working temperature.

Does anyone have handy tips for getting it in there? I use an old back axle oil container with a long nozzle but it backs up and overflows if I do it too quickly.

... 50 weight Phillips 66 ashless dispersant aviation oil.  To add oil to the gearbox, as you have noted, the small filler opening does create somewhat of a challenge to add oil to the gearbox.  i have some 50 cc syringes, so I am thinking i will probably use one to put oil in the gearbox.  I note the drain plug at the bottom of the rear wall of the gearbox.  With oil already in the gearbox, how will I know how much more oil needs to be added without overfilling?  Or do I drain what oil is in the gearbox and add the factory specified amount?

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I use a straight 40 as it tends to stay in better.  There are no seals on the upright box,  it relies on the bearing shields or shims on the output shaft and felts on the smaller shafts.

 20:50 works too but as David says is thin at low temp.  The way to fill it is...  ... slowly!  I use a  series of tun dishes to get the angle and volume right,  but its a messy business.

 Clearly not designed for frequent use...

 

Jon

Thanks for your comments on the use of bearing shields, shims and felts used to prevent oil from too rapidly exiting the gearbox.  Not really any different that the transmission on my '27 Harley.  I would imagine a certain amount of oil leakage is expected...?  I will look up the quantity the factory calls for to "fill" the gearbox. or is there an amount you fellows recommend to add...?

..."tun dishes?"  i think what you are saying about adding oil to the gear box is at some point oil will leak out faster from one area than the other, so experiment adding oil to a level that most slowly leaks...

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I fill it up until no more will go in.  The filler doubles as the level marker.  Excess will soon leak out of the kick-start shaft

 The shaft has a square cork ring. Or an o ring if that's what someone has fitted.

...the plated cover that apparently is an interference fit? covering the kick start spring, should that slip off without to much fuss?  My cover seems to be held quite securely.  The reason i am asking, the return of the kick lever seems a bit weak and the p.o. sent along a couple new springs with the bike, so i am entertaining the thought of perhaps replacing the spring since the lever sometimes does not return...  not the easiest to grasp that cover, so before i were to attempt removing the cover, thought i'd ask!

Also, i am entertaining the idea of getting a kick lever that has the folding pedal...  Not yet sure i will replace the original, more of a thought than something i would actually do.  A while back, somewhere i read the type of folding lever that is used on later bikes can be fitted to the International shaft but i have been unable to find that thread.  Which model has the folding lever that can be fitted to the International? 

Kind regards

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...on the Premier is turned in to home, you fellows likely may already know this...  If accelerating from an idle to 1/4 open is not smooth then a larger or smaller jet needs to be tried to.  Pilot jets sizes are apparently from 15-23 and the Premier comes standard with a 17; the smaller the number limits fuel, the larger the number permits more fuel.  Will see how things go on my next test ride.  Given i am running a small air filter at 5,000 feet, i may need to move down to a 15, but at 5,000 feet we are on the cusp of needing to make any jetting changes, so the 17 may perform ok.

A further note on the pilot jets used in the Premier, the different sizes of jet are identified by the number of rings in the jet, a 15 has one ring, a 17 two rings, a 19 three rings and so forth and so on.

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Hi Steve

I use GP50 in the gearbox of my Inter, as David says, fill it up until it comes up the neck of the filler. I use a 50ml syringe which just fits in the filler neck so you can squirt the oil in without too much mess. Just takes a while 

cheers 

Simon 

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...I have several quarts of Kendall 30wt racing oil, but the idea of 50wt is logical.  i wonder how much 50wt slows down leaking?  Regardless, both are fluids and both will leak out, one more slowly (hopefully) than the other...  I hate to use my aircraft 50wt just to have it leak out... 

i do seem to recall reading in the factory literature recommending to mix oil and grease...  Has anyone tried the oil/grease concoction? Since i will be using a syringe to fill the box, injecting the oil/grease mixture can only double the fun. I wonder what grease would be advisable?  Just a standard grease, probably...

I can see myself taking a tub of grease, putting it in a pan, heating it on my shop hot plate, then adding a measure of oil until the brew has the consistency of a thick syrup...  What are you fellow's thoughts on this?

I think for the purpose of logging some test miles, I'll use up some of the 30wt i have on hand.

I love these old motorcycles!!!

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…must have scrolled on before  I logged on again.  Tun dish = funnel.  I think the grease addition stopped when kickstart gear was introduced. The pawl would sick out of engagement and you couldn’t use the kickstart when cold. 
For sure the heavier weight oil leaks slower…

The filling process is just slow.  
J

 

 



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