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Probably going to need a lot of advice.

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Hello ladies and Gents,

Would like to introduce myself and say hello. 

I have recently acquired my late uncle's 1956 Dominator 99 which he bought new the 18th April 1956. I have the original papers and the last MOT was 1965 when the bike was put away. 
I first sat on this bike in 1974 as a 5 yr old child and said one day uncle Ray I will have this bike, well 50 yr's later its in my garage. 

I am desperate to get it on the road for next year 2025. I almost have all I need but I am a little daunted by the electrics (never seen a Magneto before) and also getting the timing right and not bending valves. 

Just wondering is there anybody in the South Wales area that may be able to be a mentor for me with this old bike. I am not a complete novice but this bike means a lot so I want to get it right it would be a shame to ruin a 50 yr dream.

Craig 
 

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Concentrate on getting the magneto right/running and the engine running, carburation, and oiling.
Initially ignore the Dynamo. THEN get the lights working from the battery, stop light, horn etc. At this point I suggest a few miles. Then you can worry about the dynamo and its regulator to keep the battery charged.

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The mag is simple, you send it to someone who rebuilds them! Or you buy a new BTH mag which looks the same but is modern inside and has an automatic advance retard - they are a bit pricey (prob twice the cost of a rebuild) but worth it in my book.

If it needs it - I bought a rewire kit from Al Osborne and rewired my 55 ES2, given there's just a positive and negative so its pretty easy to follow! Otherwise just follow the wiring diagram.
All the best
Dan 

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If you can... I've have seen machines parked up 69 years and need very little to get going. I have seen others  that you need to start at the very beginning...
You will get some good pointers as to where to start. Plenty of documentation in The club Library on the tab top of page. 

I'm South Wales born but live abroad now. Nottingham. Am in Pontypool and Bridgend next week if you want to meet up.  Don't be too hasty till you understand what. Will be needed. You can spend your budget on shiny bits and as my good friend Peter Meryck says. "Chrome won't get you home". :-)
Cheers
Jon

 

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It will of filled crankcase with oil . So remove sump bung and drain ( big brass one ) Clean out tank and filter Remove plugs . and check if its not seized ( valves in guides it common) put  cheep oil in and kick over until oil returns to tank.     take it a bit at a time when everything is good to GO. Then put good oil in to run . 

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Hi Craig,

   If the bike has been off the road all that time, the tyres and tubes will need replacing. While you have the wheels out you can check the brakes and bearings along with new chains. If you haven't ridden old bikes before you will need to acquaint yourself with the left side brake and right side gear-change, especially in fast traffic. There are no disc brakes or indicators so you have to ride defensively at least until you are confident with it.

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it looks a perfect bike . get some carb cleaner now. and strip and clean, Is their a spark.?. timing will not be wrong from parking in a shed.You may have to clean points . check advance / retard is free
 

 

Hi Tony,
There is evidence the motor has been apart for bearings and shells. My uncle was a brick layer not a mechanic so not 100% sure everything is lined up correctly.

Carb is coming off for a rebuild by me as I have the sonic bath to do it and again I have no idea if my late uncle touched it.

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Would I be correct in saying if I put a HT lead on the Magneto and kick the bike over I should see a spark regardless that the bike has no other wiring at the moment? 

Still trying to decide if I buy a loom or make one as the old one is very crusty.

The great advantage of a traditional magneto is that it can fire the engine no matter what the state of any other electrical apparatus that may or may not be present.

Nota bene, however, that the fact that they will produce a spark at the plug in the open air is no guarantee that they will do so under pressure in the cylinder with fuel/air mixture present.

Take off a plug cap and see what sort of spark can be generated from the bare HT lead. Lucas and BTH specified at least 5.5. mm. Note also that elderly magnetos may function adequately when cold but fade away when hot.

Magnetos are quite complicated machines; among other things they have bearings with grease that will probably have dried out since the bike last ran.

Even if a satisfactory spark can be obtained a specialist overhaul would be advisable before attempting any serious journeys. I can warmly recommend Peter de Kremer at Rutland Dynamos: http://www.rutlanddynamos.co.uk/ (usual disclaimer).

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A perfect way to clean a carb. I would pour a egg cup of oil into the bores refit plugs and turn engine over. to get oil into rings and cylinder walls . im trying to give a bit of info as to mutch and to complicated comment  will take the fun out of the project 

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As Richard suggests make sure all the safety bits are still serviceable, tyres have a date code which will help you. Cables free  to travel and all fixings are secure.  Do you have any pictures of the machine when it was in your uncles ownership?  Just to see its original finish.

Have a good look at the mag to determine if it's been refurbished during this rebuild. Points set replaced, commutator clean and undercut, slip ring clean, brushes fresh.  The one item that makes a huge difference to how these machines run is the mag! Anything else will be adjustable. 

I have several spare monoblocks for 99's and some original tank rubbers of the stick on type. Your welcome to them, 

Jon
 

 

Thank you Jonathan that is very kind. 
I have asked the family for any pictures but back in the 50's I don't think there were many members with a camera. I found some cine film from the early 60's but alas no bike in any of them. 

Then colour is correct I need to get the grey put on the tank and pinstripe. 
​​​​​​
I was told this bike was to be exported but my uncle insisted on buying it and not a British model but who knows.

Maybe the build sheet would help. 

It's nice to see the correct grey polychromatic colour for the 1950s & 60s bikes.  Many restorations I've seen have a lighter colour.  I have a new-old-stock mudguard tailpiece for a June 1959 Dommie, (they were date-stamped) which has been in a dark place all its life with no signs of fading.  I intend to take it to a paint supplies shop and check its nearest modern equivalent against their paint swatches. I also have a few bits left from my 1955 Dommie to help verify it. It was that grey, but I was still surprised, when I bought the tailpiece a few years ago, at how dark it was.
 

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Records tab above will direct you.  Export machines tended to carry a lot of higher level finishes but also superceeded parts for model years.

Take a look at tyre date codes on the web. 
Jon
 

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A one owner bike , stored in good conditions ,not messed about , thats all good . Most likely a decent set of pistons and a barrel with lots of life in it. They are to be cherished and not undervalued as very hard to replace these days. Lucky man !!.

Hi Robert, 

I consider myself to be extremely lucky. I will never sell this bike it has been in my family since 1956 and on my mind since I was a small child. 

I have just applied for the factory records to add to my file. Alas I have no photos yet of Ray with the bike which is a shame. 

In the early 60's he wished to marry my Aunt and her father was less than happy with her choice and sent her to Llanalli to live from Barry a bit of a trek before the M4.
Ray jumped on his Norton and tracked her down and they ran away on the bike to be married in Swansea before returning home. A story he often told me when i asked about the bike.
He started to restore it in his early 70's but ill health and time got in the way and he died a few weeks back age 94.

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If you are still in the Barry area, a group of older riders meet up at the Llandow raceway cafe on Sunday mornings, and other days in the week depending on the group.

I remember one lad from Barry with a 500 dominator. I'm sure they will know someone who can guide you on your journey... 

Jon

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Hi Craig, your Dominator is fantastic, gorgeous colour! In the 'Bits' photo you provided earlier I can see a correct early raised handlebar - I'm in dire need of one for my 1954 88 project, I only have the later Vincent type flat one - would you consider selling it? Hopefully attached is a photo of mine...1954 Wideline Bolt-Up

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Hi Ranulph,

I am obviously trying to work out what is right for this bike so I have not decided what I need and don't need. If the bars are surplus to requirements I am sure we can sort something.

Craig 

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That's great thanks Craig, I've got most of the large bits for mine (engine, gearbox, plates, wheels, forks etc, just picked up my new front mudguard from Fred Williams at last weekend's Stafford Show), unfortunately RGM are out of stock of the early Featherbed raised handlebars, hence my enquiry to you. Look forward to seeing progress and chatting more! 

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I completely understand your sentiments Craig, as I got onto classic Norton ownership in a similar way. You get a bike that holds a lot of sentiment, but you know nothing about it and the one person who could teach you isn't there anymore. Still, you want to do good by keeping the bike in perfect condition. That can be very scary at first.

As you've noticed, lots of people will offer you advice or guidance over here. If you're lucky, you get to know some people close by. I'm afraid I can't help you there, as I don't live in the UK. And I'm still learning myself. But the key is to not be afraid and to just get stuck in. They're not as difficult as it seems, when you get to know these machines.

Regarding to the electrics, I found the 'Classic Motorcycle Electrics Manual', written by James Smith to be very helpful. I still use it as a guide quite often.

You'll do justice to the bike, I'm sure. A motorcycle with sentiment is always well looked after. And don't be afraid to mess up (we all have to learn and I'm sure it would have made your uncle shake his head and smile) or change things if needed. Anything you do that will keep the bike healthy and on the road will do it justice.

Cheers!

Tim

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Electrics are simple.....you put the electricity into one end of the wire and it comes out the other end! Basic!

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That seems like a very good basis for a reliable bike. I would leave repainting tank till way down the list of priorities, if you intend to end up with a really functional bike. Are you a bike rider already??
    Take advice on reliable contacts for  important jobs like magneto refurbs/ replacements, as not all restorers are  really competent.
    Dynamo: one advantage is that there is no alternator on the end of the crank, so fitting a belt primary drive to clutch is made easier, which leads to not needing to have oil in the primary case, which is tricky to keep really oil-tight. 
   A very basic check on the cylinder bores with a suitable light on a probe would be useful early information , and treating inside of petrol tank suitably too. And removing and thoroughly cleaning oil tank, including compacted hard sludge which maybe sitting at the bottom. This also applies to the middle hollow tube at the centre of the crankshaft, but there is only one way to find out.....
 

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If you fit a belt drive it won't be original any more......all Nortons have oil leaks, just keep putting the oil in!

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...Are possible without too much effort. Mine doesn't appear to dump oil out to any excess anyway and I've not got any special equipment or tools to have made it so, just patience in making sure everything fitted together properly.

As Al says, it really depends upon how original you want to keep it and at what point will it become 'your' bike and stop being 'Uncle's Norton'?

When you start wandering off track with 'upgrades', it is truly amazing how the spending multiplies as you seek to make the next bit of the bike 'better'.
The most important thing is to make sure you enjoy the journey of making the bike usable for you.

Regards, George 

 

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As it says here the magneto is the heart of the engine, get it and the oil sorted and hopefully the carburation and you then have almost a working motor cycle.
You do NOT need a battery (or bulb) or dynamo to take the bike on the road. (no MOT is needed either) BUT and that is a big BUT, you will have no stop light, horn or lights! Only essential to warn other road users. But the wiring and the dynamo (working) regulator, battery are only there to make it safe to use with others on the road.
Once you (rewire/new loom) your choice and fit a battery you can make the lights work-now safe to use. Then worry about dynamo and regulator and charging.

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... as to whether a bike without lights needs a stop light. The various regulations and MoT manuals are far from clear. And you do need a horn although a bulb type would do for legal purposes if not practical ones!

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Didn't have stop lights, but a rear reflector was mandatory under vehicle construction and use  regs.
As Alan says, by use of led bulbs and self powered horn it's easy to power a machines electrics without charging, until you address the Dynamo regulator issues.

Jon

 



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