Good evening all. I hope a member or members can help me out with something I've been tearing my hair out with.
I've been the owner of a Norvil Commando in MK11A spec for a few years which was acquired on Ebay. It was built in 2006 and the previous first owner had only done 250 miles. It's used by me on high days and holidays, only showing around 4000 on the clock now.
I took it out last week and unfortunately suffered a rear wheel blow out. No real dramas but as a result decided it was time for new tyres and tubes etc.
I pulled the rear wheel off for the first time, and when doing so noticed that the inner lip of the double row bearing at the brake drum side of the hub had sheared off in several places. There was no major swarf around but the bearing was gritty and clearly needed replacing. I'd be forgiven for thinking that it had originally been driven into place using the inner race when built but I'm sure it wasn't!! However, it's difficult to imagine what force could have done that.
I'd mention here that the rear hub used by Norvil is the Pre 1971, brake drum type. No cush drive. The hub being attached to the brake drum on 3 studs with long nuts.
Removal of the old bearings was the easiest on any bike I've done using the combination of front and rear wheel spindles as described in the workshop manual, Haynes, Norman White etc. Replacing with new bearings obtained from Andover with a little heat was almost as simple as well. I marked up the bearing tube to confirm its orientation, ie. long shoulder to the speedometer side of the hub, and short shoulder to the brake side of the hub. The new bearing measurements were identical to the ones removed.
All the re-assembly was done in the correct order per the workshop manuals.
I bolted the completed wheel assembly onto the brake drum. The hub bolted flush and square onto the brake drum on the 3 studs and their shoulders. Speedometer gearbox fitted over the single row bearing lock ring etc, with everything ready to accept the rear spindle - except now the rear spindle spacer appeared to have gained 7mm overnight! There was no way the spacer was going to fit in without seriously trying to spread the swinging arm so something was clearly wrong.
Nothing had been touched by me on the brake drum side of the swinging arm, ie. that was left in place with chain still attached etc when the wheel was removed.
My thoughts immediately turned to perhaps being tired I'd actually put the bearing spacer tube in the wrong way around, so today I dismantled the hub again, taking the new bearings out and no I had put the spacer in the correct way. I put it all together properly again, this time with a friend sense checking me and the same problem as before. The wheel spacer won't fit in after the wheel is bolted onto the brake drum. We repeated all the steps again and same issue happened.
I'm totally beat. I am even considering turning the bearing spacer tube the other way around, contrary to what all the manuals say, but I'm sure 3 different workshop manuals can't be wrong over the bearing tube orientation.
Can anyone point me in the right direction as I've run out of ideas, Help please!!
Is the drive side axle done…
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Hi Robert, Thank you for…
Hi Robert,
Thank you for responding.
I did not touch anything on the drive side stub axle when I removed the wheel so it is tight and as far as I'm aware never been touched since it rolled out of Norvil's workshop.
Cheers,
Simon
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Stub Axle
Have you fitted the Stub Axle correctly?
If it is the wrong side of the brake drum then that would mess up the fitting.
Also......have the two bearings been fitted correctly.?
You must fit the right side bearing first and then use the locking ring / speedo drive to move and then hold it in position. When you warmed the hub to drop it in place, it may have gone too far into the hub. Where upon the cooling hub locked it in the wrong position.
Above is Dominator Hub but the main components and their fitment are similar.
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Thanks for responding Philip…
Thanks for responding Philip.
I didn't touch the stub axle at all. It is still in place and tight as originally fitted by Norvil.
With regard to bearings and spacer tube these have all been fitted in accordance with the various manuals and in the correct orientation several times. On the drive side bearing, the top of the spacer tube comes to just under the top of the inner race and I'm confident therefore that it's sitting properly on the shoulder of the bearing tube.
On the speedo side bearing all components have been fitted correctly (first to go in per the manuals) and the lock ring has been tightened down hard. There is a gap of about 2-3mm under the lock ring to the hub which as far as I can remember is the same as when I took the components apart.
Hence the head scratching! Aargh
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Hello, i fitted a set of…
Hello, i fitted a set of rear bearings and tapped them
into position. i couldn,t get the wheel to fit . Found it to be with me tapping bearings into place. The spacer tube knocked the speedo side bearing off its seat.i put the speedo and ring on and tightened it up as i thought but the wheel spacer would seenot go in. So fitted the wheel with just the spindle with no speedo drive in place on checking the speedo drive lock ring it was sticking out to far so tightening it up and it pulled the bearing back onto it seat .all ok after. Barry .
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Hi Barry, Thanks for your…
Hi Barry,
Thanks for your comments.
In the manuals they say fit the speedo side bearing first and lock it in with the lock ring. Then fit the spacer tube with long end first into the hub and locate it into the speedo side bearing, then fit the double bearing. In that way then, I'm pretty confident that the speedo side bearing has not been pushed off the hub shoulder when I've tapped in the double bearing on the brake drum side.
Cheers,
Simon
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Some measurements from an…
Some measurements from an original, unmolested bolt-up hub from a 1970 Roadster:
- outside of bearing to outside of bearing: 110.7mm
- axial offset of outside of chain side bearing from drum contact pads(3): 26.6mm
distances +/- 1mm.
BTW: if anyone is interested in this bolt-up wheel (no brake drum or spindle), drop me a PM.
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Is the drive side axle done up tight or loose when you try to fit the wheel ?. There will likely be some pattern parts in your assembly perhaps they dont mate well.