Hello all,
I'm searching for drawings/dimensions of the Slimline frame to check my 1963 Atlas frame against, prior to starting the build. Right now is the ideal time to correct any issues the frame may have, especially as I suspect the rear of the frame (where the shocks mount) may have some minor issues.
I found a post from some years ago that mentioned an NDA, and have reached out inquiring about this, but so far no response.
Any help or guidance would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Mark
You are right . Now is the…
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Searches only brought me here
Thank you for your responses. The searching on Access Norton brought a larger variety of measurements and opinions than bikes on the road it seems. Searching NOC, I found a partial of the dimensions I am looking for, but I'd like the whole schematic:
https://www.nortonownersclub.org/forum/slimline-featherbed-factory-frame-drawing
Frustrating, as nothing is located in any of the Norton shop manuals I have for these bikes. I would like the measurement values, and it seems that anything that can be trusted is squirreled away somewhere.
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I think a good start with…
I think a good start with checking frame alignment is to assemble an empty crankcase and gearbox shell in to the frame. If all the bolts/studs fit easily then there's a good chance the frame is in good shape.
This tip was given to me many years ago by the local "Motoliner" guy. This was his first check unless other damage was obvious.
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You're going to like this ...
John,
Luckily with this frame came the original Atlas crankcase. Fitting it all in, the case went in without any issue as per your description above.
The lower main portion of the frame is spot on, and the neck/rake sits very comfortably at 26 degrees on the vertical, and perfectly aligned with the vertical and horizontal centerline.
Where I am worried about is at the rear of the frame where the upper shocks will mount. I've attached some images I quickly took here of the 3 measurements ...
A - top center to top center = 216mm
B - outside top edge of shoulders = 219mm
C - outside face to outside face = 281-282mm
The concern I have is that along the centerline, the frame is slightly proud on the right hand side, and how this will affect the rear tire and swing arm. By slight, it is 2-3mm proud to the right. The horns for the swing arm are centered with equal distance from the centerline. The 2-3mm can be easily fixed with spacers on either side of the upper mount on the shock to ensure that it is seated vertically, and as I write this, I'm starting to wonder if it is much-a-do about nothing. Blame my OCD engineering brain, but again, I just want to be sure before starting this build in earnest.
Mark
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I read somewhere when AMC…
I read somewhere when AMC had to make frames they measured a Bracebridge St one and did the drawings ,However the transfer of measurements was incorrect and so the new frames were a bit different to what went before ! , Wonder if its true?. Head angle ?.
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Variations
There were at least 4 versions of the Slimline Frame made and not all by Reynolds. The Mercury version came constructed in Italian steel. You also had a couple of racing variations such as the Lowboy.
Another not well-known fact being that the first designs for the replacement of the 1950 Featherbed, later known as the Slimline, were assembled in 1957. But signed contracts for years of frame production delayed the use of this frame until late 1959.
Finally...........the original Featherbed Frame drawings used Imperial measurements.
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My bike's PO told me nothing…
My bike's PO told me nothing was really straight/parallel/square etc. The two lugs that project in to attach the side faces of the back mudguard aren't in line. They caused a slight zig-zag in the side of one mudguard that eventually caused a crack as it 'breathed' over bumps. I corrected it by filing a slight angle on the face of the spacer tube.
Robert's points are well made - especially the result of a head-on bump. It's not unknown to find Dommies where the front mudguard hits the frame under full compression. That has to be worth checking.
But I suspect that if you try to 'blueprint' your frame according to drawings, you'll have a hard time. I'm sure it's been written up that the first frames were made in a jig or jigs made by or for McCandless, and the drawings for later models built at Plumstead were done after measuring frames, rather than the other way round. So fames were made before drawings existed...can anyone confirm this in case it's a myth that becomes true after it's repeated?
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...Went to Andover.
I sent pictures with my measurements to Andover's tech department. Hopefully they'll be able to answer the question.
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Go with the fundamentals…
Your measuments detect a slight variation in the rear. Your skills should be able to equalise that alignment to give you the fundamental set up of an inline chassis and drive train. Your goal should be to get those elements working in unison so she runs straight and true at both extremes of suspension movement.
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AMC didn't make Featherbed…
AMC didn't make Featherbed frames. Ken Sprayson stated in his book that all Featherbed type frames, for road bikes & racers, were made at Reynolds. As for the Italian connection, some frames were made in Italy around 1974, but they were Commando ones & are well documented.
Does any one know for sure that Mercury frames were made in Italy?
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Frame drawing sent to Mark…
Frame drawing sent to Mark today.
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Dominator Service Notes
DSN Pg 60 details a lot you need to know about the Fbed. Yes by all means check dimensions and straightness, but considering the years and mileage these frames might have seen then checking the known areas of wear/bend etc might be more useful.
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Thank you Tony
Thank you Tony for the drawing! Greatly appreciated. Cheers!
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F-bed straightening
Mark ,this should'nt bother you, just some unsubstantiated recall. Further to Robert's post, th stated steering angle for road frames was a "transpositional error" after measuring a frame, from "one degree away from th 25 mark" to "one degree after th 25" i.e.26 stated ,rather than th 24 for th Manx. All F-beds are supposedly made at 24. Yours may have been "adjusted" to th transposed 26 by another praiseworthy OCD builder. This should make th bike even more stable. Are you familiar with th F-bed riding performance? That previous engineer may have already corrected th entire frame. This opinion of mine on th s.h. angle is based on an writing in R-H magazine only a few years ago by someone close to th time,at th factory ,investigating warranty claims of dented front guards at their rear by th downtubes.
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Lots to check, the headstock…
Lots to check, the headstock angle changed in 1963 from 26 to 24 degrees, according to drawings, so be aware of this one. From the drawings we have it suggests that there many different frames, 1959, 1960, 1963 1965 ( same bar one bracket)
However, a frame must be damage free but not necessarily 'straight' not so much for the handling but more for safety. Irrespective of the frame condition if the wheels are vertical and in line with each other it will perform as a frame. Now even if this is the case and the frame has been repaired and cracks not identified then the frame would handle correctly but could fail on the next road imperfection - it's straight but not damage free
A bent frame free of cracks that keeps the wheels vertical and aligned is better than a repaired 'straight' frame carrying hidden faults. In the last 9 years I am aware of 3 Commando frames that have been straightened but had cracks that were only spotted at the coating stage.
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That's interesting regarding…
That's interesting regarding the headstock angle, as Ken Sprayson said that all types of Featherbed were 26 degrees. Maybe his memory was fading with age. I wonder why it was changed, if indeed it was?
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Its strange how Featherbed…
Its strange how Featherbed frames will handle well even if noticably bent. My 99 is definately twisted enough to give concern about chain run and wheel alignment ,all else is in order with good forks and weight distribution ( with panniers permanently fitted I can adjust that ) .The bike handles very well and happily out cornerd sons MT09. He also rode the 99 in the IOM for many weeks and liked the handling. The Atlas is perfectly straight and handles like a loaded truck in comparison to the 99 .. Something to do with the weight distribution ?, A heavier flywheel ,Fatter tyres , the later revised head angle, riding position, ( or all together !)) . A certain Mr Degens suggested I reposition the swinging arm to compensate the 99's issue and expressed doubt that the frame twist could be practically resolved as it was likely built that way.( he had straightened many a bed to build Tritons).
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You are right . Now is the time to correct any faults .Check down tubes for straightness. They get bowed back by frontal impacts , bottom tube pads get worn from the contact with centerstand and bent up from kickstarting on stand with missing bolts. Top rails get twisted in frontal impacts and some were built that way ( very difficult to correct) .silencer brackets and rear suspension mounts crack . Rust can weaken the bottom tubes at the rear, Stand pivot points wear .Front engine mounts can crack . Swinging arm mounts can be worn .Someone will come up with the dimensions but i have heard that some drawings have incorrect steering head angle.