Skip to main content
English French German Italian Spanish

Timing Cover - Contact Breaker oil seal, Sorted at last!

Forums

Standard issue with the Contact Breaker oil seal, not doing its job!

Two attempts to sort out with the standard seal 06.3609 didn't break the bank at £1.36 plus the VAT, but time consuming never the less.

Used the correct fitting / alignment tool 06.1359 plus insulation tape to bridge the gap between the end of the cam and the alignment tool plus plenty of lube - STILL didn't work!

Investigated the use of a Metric seal that would give a tighter fit onto the cam body, with maybe a double lipped design - anything to stop the migration of oil onto the Tri Spark ignition.

So seals designated with the R21 classification are of a single lip design and seals with the designation of R23 are of a double lipped design - one lip has the steel closure pressure ring and the other lip is classed as a wiper seal.

Anyway looking to replace the standard seal - as detailed as Fractions and Decimals of an inch:

Fraction = 5/8" x 15/16" x 3/16" that would be Inner diameter x Outside diameter x Thickness

Decimal = 0.625 x 0.938 x 0.187

As measured in Metric the seal would be:

15.8mm Inner diameter x 23.825mm Outside diameter x 4.74mm Thickness

I found a Double lipped Seal (R23) 15mm x 24mm x 7mm

Obviously a tighter fit on the Cam body (good so far), I altered the Outside diameter to match the original and the 7mm is some 2.26mm thicker than the original seal (06.3609).

I fitted the seal using the standard tools (as previous) - Hey Presto, no more oil leaking onto the Tri Spark ignition.

The thickness of the new Metric seal was not an issue - fitted the timing cover, turned over the engine with the plugs out, removed the timing cover and inspected the new seal for any fouling or scraping on the cam, no issues there.

New Metric seal is from WWW.bearingboys.co.uk

Part number BB-7180 Oil Seal 15x24x7 R23 Metric Oil Seal £2.76 plus

Permalink

There should be no issue with oil on the Tri spark PIck Up. Obviously if it becomes  awash with oil then there Might be an issue. The is an issue with significant oil on points. But many miles have to elapse first.  Yes cure excessive oil flow, but it will NOT stop the engine initialy.

Permalink

Many thanks Alan for the feedback on the Tri Spark unit - I think I read about oil on the unit previously. My main task was to get the seal to do its job and hope that others would find the information useful. I am no expert in the dark arts of electronics, but the Tri Spark unit is so easy to work with, which made this task a worthwhile bit of homework.

Permalink

Very helpful post. I've always had leaks with O.E. seals and three different cams. Checked the dimensions and concentricity, all OK. Oil exits through the bottom drain hole and back along the cases onto my boot and trouser leg. Minimal but annoying amount noticeable on long trips
 

Fitted a drain to a small catch can on the lower frame which works great but shouldn't be needed and I like the Trispark clean and oil free even though the hot oil has no effect as Alan says.

I've ordered one £2.36 delivered from ebay and hopefully it'll work on my bike.

 

Permalink

Several years ago (In the 70s I rode a good few miles) I had a Commando engine (in Fbed frame)  That did this very thing. dribbled oil out of the Points cover cap. We were standing in the T queue at the M way Services, when my Pal who rode a oil tight Boxer twin, became a bit concerned his right boot had a splattering of oil. He rushed out to his bike, which also had a slight splattering on the front RHS. I then pointed out that I had similar on my right boot. We all know where it was originating from. (he was following me)  But I had my comeuppance as within a few days of riding the points burnt with the oil, advanced the ignition, burnt a hole in a piston.  You are safe for a few miles only! Keep away from points!

Permalink

The standard seal will work, however the quality of that portion of the cam that runs in the seal can leave a lot to be desired. Tapered, oval, undersize and not concentric are usually the case so worth checking that area. 

Permalink

A properly machined cam should have none of those defects on a 1/2” long cam seal surface unless you used a stone axe!  That would be unacceptable on the ancient Colchester I learned on at the start of my apprenticeship. 

The SS marked Combat cam (as per Dyno Daves cam data) in my bike when I bought it, had marks from previous “attention” near the ignition thread but the seal area was even and unmarked.

My new USA Johnson J380 and Web#312 cams were ground to a very high quality finish all over and wouldn't suddenly become tapered, oval, undersize or not concentric. That can only come from substandard original machining or damage. Didn't stop all three cams leaking with O.E. seals however.

Do you have the actual tolerance for the diameter of the cam at the seal face according to your own cam information? As far as I know the basic dimension is 0.625”∅  possibly ±0.001”

 

I worked on the basis that a shaft sized  0.625” is 15.875mm so a 15mm seal (Id) should give me a good seal.

This appears to have worked OK.

Used insulation tape wound around the very end of the cam and spiralled it all the way to the ends of the seal fitting tool - plenty of oil applied, all worked well.

I can also recall back in the 70’s that my 1976 850 Mk3 had no oil leaks - never wet sumped and the cam oil seal worked fine as well - Lucky Me!

My current 1977 850 Mk3 is now sorted at last!

Permalink

The new seal has a slightly bigger Outside Diameter than the original.

I measured the original seal OD with a vernier then locked the vernier at that size.

I reduced the OD of the new seal by holding it with my thumb and forefinger through the middle of the seal - this allowed the seal to rotate as I held it square up to a fine rotating grinding wheel.

The wheel removed a small amount of rubber - checking the size as I went along. Ended up with a flat outer surface and a good size to match up with the original!

NICE!

Permalink

There's a product called a seal saver that most bearing factors can supply. It's thin steel sleeve with a smooth hard chrome plated outer and they come in all sizes imperial and metric. It comes complete with a tube for installation. The only difficulty I've found can be removing the fitting lip on the end seal saver, however this can be left on if it's not interfering with the seal.

Sadly when replacement OE cam seals keep leaking and the shaft surface is in good nick the cause can be a worn cam bush.

Permalink

Was it in the old NOC Service Notes that there was a reference to the factory-fitted red rubber seals (which had a steel outer) and that they were much better than the harder black synthetic seals which were generally supplied by the trade?...What is OE in this context ? I bought a small supply many years ago and they have never given trouble...I did have a new timing cover though that had a porous casting fault from inside to the points lead tunnel. That confused me for a while.

 



© 2024 Norton Owners Club Website by 2Toucans