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1975 MK3 Commando front caliper problem

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Hi again everyone I took my 1975 Norton commando on its maiden voyage today and after 10 miles of calm riding the front disc and calliper locked up, I called the AA who got to me in approx an hour by this time it had all cooled down and freed off so the AA man kindly offered to follow me home and as I turned into my road history repeated same distance each way, anyway the bike has a new master cylinder and hoses also disc and wheel and seeing all this was not expecting any trouble from that end but obviously the calliper has not been touched, so I have ordered a rebuild kit with new stainless pistons and started to gather the tools for the job, then I saw the bleed nipple which is obviously a different metal to the ally calliper and looks to be corroded and ridiculously weak I have cleaned it off with a brass brush and given it a squirt of WD40 but I honestly think as soon as I put pressure on it to release it will break has anyone a foolproof method for removing these so I can enjoy what little summer we have left Many thanks Chris

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I bought the bike as is but it is now not as cheap as I thought it was the new parts fitted were done by previous owner

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I suspect the new master cylinder has a sleeved bore to improve brake performance, but in doing this there is a risk of the piston seal not completely clearing the pressure release hole at the fully off position. The pressure is not released after applying the brake which stays locked on. It works when the master cylinder is cold but out in the sun the master cylinder heats up and whatever small gap there is closes up completely, in your case the seal may be always too far in as yours locks up after 10 miles.

The fix is to get the piston to move further back when the brake is not applied so the seal clears the hole (you can visually see this with the cap off and the fluid reservoir empty), take the hand lever off and see if the piston moves back far enough. If it does then file the end of the lever that touches the piston so with the lever in place the piston is not pushed inwards. If the piston cannot move back far enough with the lever not there then its more complicated so come back if that is the problem.

That nipple is easily sheared off, it corrodes in the alloy easily. Can only suggest lots of heat and if necessary enough to damage the seals, you have new ones on order anyway but that will take you off the road. 

If you need it checked/reworked Peter Shand is your man. His details should be on this site.

Sleeved and rebuilt my M/C. He knows his stuff and is very reasonable. Super job on my '73 M/C, I would send it to him to check it over. Maybe send him the caliper too. He has engineering facilities.

 

Eddie

 

 

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Hello Chris

From your previous posts about the front brake did you find out what kind of master cylinder had been fitted? A small bore AN one or an original sleeved down master cylinder? This very much sounds like a sleeved down cylinder that has not been set up correctly. If it has been sleeved with the RGM kit, it is possible to adjust the piston pusher between the lever and the piston itself. You must be able to see a small squirt of brake fluid from the holes at the bottom of the reservoir when the brake lever is squeezed (reservoir cap and bellows seal removed) This proves that the reservoir holes are venting the brake system when the lever is at rest (brake not applied) This is essential to prevent exactly what is happening to your brake. Can you take a photo of the mastercylinder. The attached photo is of the sleeved master cylinder on my Mk3

Don't apply seal melting heat to the caliper, only use a hot air gun or similar. Seal melting heat will ruin the heat treatment that the caliper had during manufacture. I have removed loads of broken bleed screws and the like by drilling and grinding the center of the screw out. A battery die grinder from Lidl that cost less than £20 and a pack of the diamond bits is ideal for jobs like this. Ive even removed a broken easyout from a broken bleed screw and left the threads undamaged using this gear.       

 

 

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This sounds to me like it is the problem I have, and it is definitely adjustable as the previous owner told me he had done it but it seems not correctly could someone give me a guide as to the procedure for adjusting this correctly the previous owner said he adjusted it because the lever was coming back to far before activating the brake and he I assume adjusted it as you would a cable brake regarding lever coming back towards handlebar to far, please forgive my ignorance but this is my first bike with hydraulics and if I knew where the brake should activate when cold I might be able to do it myself. and not knowing who the cylinder came from but that it is adjustable all seems to fall into place and him saying the lever was slack would probably be taken up when warmed up, but it being a modification I would appreciate a copy of the instructions for adjustment if anyone has a copy, anyway many thanks everyone for your help and if anyone can please indulge me a little longer with the procedure for adjustment on this mod thanks again Chris

It is obvious that the previous owner didn't know what he was doing and just gave you a load of flannel to cover up his dodgy efforts. He had compensated for NOT bleeding all the air out of the system by adjusting the piston pusher... You need to get an experienced motorbike mechanic, familiar with this kind of system, to have a look at it. I know this might not be the advice you wanted to hear but this is brakes we are talking about. A mistake or failure can have fatal consequences. 

Hi Peter I am told you are the man for this problem I am going to attempt to release the bleed nipple today but I would bet money on it shearing and if it does you would be able to remove it, is this so and should this occur I think I ought to send you the master cylinder and calliper to work your magic on could you please let me have an approx idea of cost and availability to do the job as you say this is brakes we are talking about about and failure could be fatal, however I do feel confident enough to sort out the adjustments if I can release the nipple so please contact me with some details like location, phone number etc I am new to the forum and am wary of putting my number on line and have not yet discovered any kind of private messaging on here hope to hear fr5om you soon Chris

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.. as though it's been set up with the M/C piston covering the tiny bleed hole that allows fluid back into the cylinder when everything hats up a bit. This applies the brake resulting in yet more  heat till the whole things comes to a halt. I had that problem on my Commando when I fitted a different - Guzzi I think - master cylinder.

But as said, if you're not absolutely confident in your abilities get someone who is to sort it out.

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Hi everyone you were all pretty much correct in that no return was getting to the master cylinder anyway I got in touch with Peter Shand who after a bit of trying this and that decided it has possibly been assembled badly or even wrongly so I have sent him the master cylinder and calliper for refurb who knows I might even get to use it this year

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I'm sure that Peter can fix it, but Andover Norton have new calipers. Personally, I use a Lockheed 'variable ratio' master cylinder....the parts are out there and a decent usable brake is quite possible.

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Had similar front brake problem on both my 850s , a Mk 1a and a Mk3 , and finally gave up trying to fix after several attempts which brought only small improvements , fitting upgrade disc and caliper (Lockheed Racing) kits from Norvil and RGM respectively which sorted everything. Kept original Norton master cylinders with standard bores in both cases but fitted new hydraulic pipes. This was five years ago and both front brakes still excellent. Definitely worth the money.

 



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