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Mk3 Crank Drive Side Oil Seal Circlip

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I have just started assembling my Mk3 crankcases and when fitting a new crank primary drive seal, found that the wire circlip groove is not great. The photos show obvious damage on the outer face that was present when I first stripped the engine, but the circlip was seated at that stage and needed prising out as normal, so the damage did not seem to be an issue - despite looking rough.  The cases went to Norman White for a timing side camshaft bush repair and vapour blasting, but apart from removing the main bearings prior to blasting, the drive side was not disturbed.

You can see that the new circlip hardly seats in some places and I do not trust it to remain in position.  So what to do?  Anything like epoxy adhesive just seems a bodge. A very steady hand with a small Dremel burr to increase the groove depth is the only thing an can think of, but that could go horribly wrong!

Any thoughts?

Andy

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Commandos had no circlip until the 850 MK3, it was added to stop the seal being pushed out if the engine was started with a sump full of oil. An alternative is to put a spacer between the main sprocket and the seal so stopping the seal moving outwards.

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What the hell has ground that outer face away ? Norton introduced quite a number of new problems with the Mk3 which were never addressed as there was effectively no development once the model was in production. However, there is a fair amount of metal missing from the outside of the bearing / oil seal housing in this case.

Earlier models had a lip behind the oil seal which meant that the seal could at least be pushed in square. With the Mk3, it seems to be a case of enter the seal, then the circlip and gently ease the clip in, until it springs...hoping that the seal will still be square behind it. I prefer the steel-outer seals with a wipe of Loctite.

I also had problems with a damaged circlip grove on the Mk3 that I bought in 1983 after seven previous owners and probably as many blow-ups. Norman White machined out the circlip area and faced the casings then made a steel top-hat bush with two grooves that sits outside of the bearing so I now have a circlip behind the seal and one in front.

That was about thirty-five years ago and it's still good...I'd suggest having another word with Norm. It's worth getting it right as a seal that pops out in use, while not disastrous will fill the case with oil and give a clutch that slips and drags at the same time. You'll get home, but you won't be smiling !

 

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Thanks for all the comments.  When I got the bike it had a belt drive fitted (now chain again) and the inner primary case had been butchered by turning the clutch shaft seal housing into rough slot. I’ll check how close the front pulley was close to the crankcase and see it was butchered too for clearance.

And yes, Richard, I have been considering whether another visit to Norman might be needed.

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JS Norton are selling an O ring to put outside the seal ( possibly only for pre mk3?) to prevent wet sump ejection. Dimensions have been mentioned somewhere.

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Not yet settled on a solution to secure the circlip, but have found what drove the butchery.  As mentioned, the bike (a non-runner wreck when I got it) had a belt drive.  Having compared the belt drive pulley to the proper chain sprocket, it is quite obvious that the crude pulley design (which looks awful) did not provide the necessary clearance with the casing. The inner face and taper boss are parallel, whereas the sprocket boss is proud of the inner face, the sprocket is also recessed, so there is no chance of casing contact.  See attached photos.  Is this a typical belt drive pulley design?

Quite why is was felt necessary to cause so much damage just to fit a belt drive to a Mk3 is a mystery? Irreversible damage was caused to the primary case and isolastic cradle; plus, the gearbox inner and outer covers were of course replaced with (poor condition) right hand change items.  Rectifying all that by finding replacement parts has proved time-consuming and costly, though I have been fortunate to be able to obtain new original items of almost of those.

 Why do all that to a Mk3 rather than get an earlier model where belt drive installation - if so necessary - could be achieved quite simply? Some people should not be allowed near motorcycles!!

Andy

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That's not a commercially-produced Commando front pulley...something taken from an industrial belt supplier's stock I think. The previous owner was probably so proud of himself for having saved £50 on the conversion.

Mk3s can be fitted with belts without that butchery but there are limitations on pulley sizes.

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Looks more like the results of a shredded belt to me (been there, back on chain now). The reinforcing cable inside the belts gets wound around the crank, tightens up and is forced outwards into the adjacent components. You could have it built back up with weld and machined back to standard dimensions.

Best of luck, Al.

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Belt pulley looks similar to stuff that was available in the '80s.

To offer a response to your "Some people should not be allowed near motorcycles!" comment, I'd remind you that in the '70s and '80s a Commando was a cheap old banger not a rare and valued classic (still is to some of us :)). Going racing? - Mk3 cases were stronger. Belt drive pulley doesn't fit? - file a bit off the crankcase. Need to adjust the primary tension? - slot the engine plates and inner cover. Don't like LHS gearshift? - fit earlier covers. What does it matter, you're probably going to smash it up anyway.

Think of it as archeology and enjoy.

 



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