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Condensor

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I'm thinking about changing my 1959 coil Ignition ES2 from 6v to 12v. I know battery, bulbs and coil need to be swapped but what about the little condensor? Are there 6 volt and 12 volt condensors?

Alan 

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I switched to 12v and used the orriginal condensor for a few years ( carrying a car condensor as a spare). Eventually I fitted a Boyer points assist electronic box  which does not need a condensor in use.I find the spark much improved and the points need little attention. Ignition timing is simplified as the box has a built in timing light. small adjustments to timing can be accomodated by adjusting the points gap a couple of thou. A very slight kickback sometimes when starting seems to indicate things are as  well as they can be, (on my bike anyway!).

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Robert T your reply is exactly what I would have said except that I can fit a 'real' full Boyer system, into these units. Gets rid of the rotating rota gubbins and that 'upside down cows udder' impression on  the twins.

You know my phone Alan T.

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Lucas advised that if you changed to 12v system, then you replace the existing condenser in the distributor with an automotive one for 12v electrics. I had to do this when I changed to 12v,  The points burnt even when I changed the. condenser for a NOS 6v one. I mounted my condensor external to my distributor, no further probems.

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Thanks Robert, AO and Charles for your replies, I now know it'll need changing if I decide to go 12v (as I suspected). I wonder if anyone has managed to find a suitable condenser that can fit internally under the cover?

I have no wish to upgrade the ignition system to electronic, the engine runs just fine as is, plus is very simple. The only reason I would change the electrics to 12 volt is for better bulb choice and regulated charge system.

Presently it's slightly over charging with the lights on because I'm running a 6v halogen bulb that is 25 watts. I believe a 35 watt headlight bulb would be better but I haven't found a suitable halogen in P36 format. I might have to change the headlamp to H4 type. I have a few options to think about. :-)

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Norbsa  Geoffy ? do a halogen to fit BPF.I don't think you will find a better condensor to fit inside, a car one mounted on the outside is more likely. You can leave the old one in position ,just insulate with a fibre washer.

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hello  well I go for a condenser from a morris minor as these cars run on a champion N5 same as some Nortons all the best  yours  Anna j

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I opened up the chain case to do some maintenance today and the ES2 has still got it's original 6v alternator, it's is in a pretty poor state, the wires are all cracked and have been badly repaired in the past. It's now looking like I will be going 12 volt, I've got an old Commando alternator which is quite usable. Zoom in to the picture attached and look at the wires where they exit the alternator to see how bad they are. Its's amazing it worked OK like this. 

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I can rewire this stator with regard the wires that go to the out side, but I would be far more concerned about the state of the coils, as all the shellack/insulation is burnt, so it is a wonder it still worked.

Hi AO, yes thanks, I have indeed put two new leads on the old Commando stator that I intend to use on my ES2, which was only removed from my Commando because the wires had gone so hard and brittle. The old 6v stator is now a museum piece. 

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Hi David, it is a trick of the light, the gap is between the rotor and iron posts of the stator which are very close. I have pointed out on the picture so you might just see.

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Going back to the origin of the thread, my question was "Are there 6 volt and 12 volt condensers?" I have found more advice on Condensers on other forums:-

From a car forum. - Can I use a 12 volt condensor on 6 volt car?
No such thing as a 6V or 12V ignition condenser. Irrespective of applied primary voltage (6V, 12V, 24V) the condensers are made to withstand the flyback or reverse EMF voltage made by the coil as it's magnetic field collapses when the points open. That is ~80-100 volts for a typical iron core type ignition coil. The condensers have an insulation breakdown voltage of 200 volts or more when new.

From a Tractor forum.  "condensers are usually rated for about 200 volts, but they need to match the sparkie coil. (its a technical thing) so 6v or 12v, positive or negative ground, consensers don't care and you don't eather. Condersers eather fail dramatically (quit running by internally shorting out) or fail in about 1 minutes time by internal leakage but will start up the next morning after cooling off overnite"

What do the electrical minded Norton owners out there think of those two pieces of text?

Kind regards, Alan

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Many thanks Charles, very useful information, covers everything. A couple of days ago I mounted a Lucas car condenser externally. The Lucas workshop instructions confirms I've done the right thing. I'm yet to try it out, still got to get the primary drive back together. Plus remove the original alternator wires from the PRS8 switch.

Regards, Alan 

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The two bits of information above are both correct, ignition capacitors have to withstand many volts and are NOT concerned about polarity. The Lucas information is extremly correct for the 1950s. The capacitors in the 18D1/2 were always poor, and often have failed. So external one is preferred.

 



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