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Leaning both ways

Submitted by robert_tuck on Tue, 05/03/2019
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Nortons - General

Not since the Vincent have I seen a bike with two side stands. I am finding it difficult to use the centerstand and the ground  angles don't allways  work in favour. Am thinking of installing an extra offside stand.  Anyone else tried this?  Is there a stand made that's suitable?.

Submitted by mikael_ridderstad on Tue, 05/03/2019

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On Vincents it's a necessity to have side stand on both sides. If the ground is not completely level, it will fall over. Sometimes it falls on level ground too. We always carry some wooden blocks in our pockets to put under the side stand. It is common to replace them with a Kawasaki side stand. When finally Vincent fitted a centre stand on the series D, it has a long handlever to get it on the stand. Might such a solution be possible on a Norton?

The Vincent front stand doubled as a front wheel lift so you could easily remove (and refit) the front wheel, and even for working on the front suspension.  Part of the idea with a Vin was that it was an ideal long-distance tourer, so a Brit owner could go to the Continent and use the most suitable side stand.  But these days many Vincent owners fit a roll-on centre stand, and a modern side stand on the left footrest plate.  Sorry Phils!

The Norton centre stand is rather inaccessible, so I don't rate the chances of rigging up a hand lever.

Paul

The Vincent front stands once deployed enabled the owner to remove the fuel tank, unbolt the oil tank from the cylinder heads and wheel the entire oil tank, front wheel and forks away from the motorcycle, thus allowing work to be carried out on the top end of the engine.

Submitted by ian_soady on Tue, 05/03/2019

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Have a prop stand on the offside which may be possible to adapt but would be a bit suspect with the weight of a Norton.

Submitted by david_cooper on Tue, 05/03/2019

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There is an upright stand on the market.  Based on one advertised in Motor Cycling in the 1950's. 

http://www.vintele.co.uk/

 

It only fits a rigid frame though!

 

 

 

 

Submitted by richard_payne on Tue, 05/03/2019

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The centre stand on pre-war Norton singles was actually a double sided prop stand that didn't lift the wheels clear of the ground.

You could always put a WD16H field stand on each pillion footrest lug then you'll have a choice of which way to let the thing fall off the stand :-)

Submitted by paul_standeven on Tue, 05/03/2019

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Another solution might be to make a roll-on centre stand for the 99. I would rate that as a good accessory for some outfit like RGM or Norvil to offer.  If one was on offer, I would buy

Paul

Submitted by robert_tuck on Wed, 06/03/2019

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Its funny .I've had the Norton for  over 25 years  on the road  and  only used the side stand for a few weeks ,never trusted it before.  Now I need it .Also can only just manage to kick it over ,A decompressor lever would be a real boon too. Someone sooner or later will supply an electric start. Don't really want the complication though , How does a compression plate under the barrels affect the cam followers ?,  Forgot to plan for old age!!.One solution would be to get the Rudge better sorted, Low saddle  ,decompression lever, hand operated stand ala Vincent, light dry non slip clutch in non leaking oil bath. All done and sorted in 1936. 

Submitted by david_cooper on Wed, 06/03/2019

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Why did prewar single cylinder 350cc low compression bikes have decompressors, and postwar 600cc (two x 300cc) and 750cc (two x 375cc) MUCH higher compression bikes did not?  It's small wonder that electric starts came along, because they really did become necessary as engine sizes and compression ratios both increased after the war.

There is a picture in one of the Norton books of a 16H with a hand starting lever for a disabled (war wounded) rider.  Lower compression and decompressor to assist of course.

Submitted by paul_standeven on Wed, 06/03/2019

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is not a good idea.  It would move the cam follower tunnels upwards, reducing the support to the followers.  The tunnels would be under much greater stress and so, higher wear.

My BSA Super Rocket with 9:1 pistons was a VERY easy starter.  No decompressor.....  My '55 Dominator with '56 pistons (they wore out their original bores in '62 and sat on a shelf for a few decades) is even easier.  Good carburetion and a healthy magneto are the key.

Various companies (eg Alton, SRM) offer electric starter conversions concealed in the primary case.  There is one for the Commando, maybe one can be persuaded into a 99.  Get on the blower.

Paul

Submitted by ian_soady on Sat, 09/03/2019

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I've never understood how a prop stand on both sides can actually lift the front wheel off the deck. Surely you have to lean the bike in the relevant direction to use the stand on either stand which means that if the bike is vertical neither will touch the ground?

I must be missing something. I'll pop off to the NMM and check them out.....

Hello Ian, regarding your comment about not understanding how the Vincent side stands work when used together.                                                                                                                            While standing at the side of the motorcycle you lean it to the left and drop the r/h stand, having done this you lean the bike the other way,  at this point the bike is supported on the rear tyre and the r/h prop stand, you now drop the l/h prop stand and bring the bike back to vertical.                     At this point the bike is standing on the rear wheel and the two prop stands and the front wheel is clear of the ground.                                                                                                                                   If it is now required you can remove the fuel tank, unbolt the oil tank and wheel the entire front wheel and fork assembly away enabling the top end of the engine to be attended to. Simples eh!!        Ian Hay, Thames Valley Branch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vincent side stands work together.

Submitted by ian_soady on Tue, 12/03/2019

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But presumably then they can't be used as "conventional" prop stands as those need the bike to be leaning towards the stand in which case the opposite side one would be miles off the deck.....

And I can't see how you can drop the "far" stand when you're standing beside the bike.

I did happen to pop into the NMM the other day and looked at a couple of Vincents but was no wiser.

Hello Ian, yes they can be used conventionally, you just use them in the way that you would expect to use them, when you do this you have the advantage of parking the bike either leaning left or right, the unused prop then remains folded.                                                                            If you need to use them as an aid to working on the engine it does help if you have a friend on hand to lower the other stand but it's not impossible to do it on your own.                                  Trust me, I have one.

All the best, Ian.

PS. Probably best to drop the Vincent chat as we seem to have got a bit off topic.

Submitted by robert_tuck on Tue, 12/03/2019

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A continental bike should have the stand on the other side, so it should be possible to find one, got me thinking now , Have to nip round and look at the big old Duke that's " resting " in my lads garage.

Submitted by ian_soady on Tue, 12/03/2019

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has the stand on the left. It's not very good.......

Submitted by mikael_ridderstad on Tue, 12/03/2019

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The first side stand I know of was in a 1923 Harley-Davidson advertisement.They called it a jiffy stand and it was on the left side.

PS. The Vincent rider's handbook uses 110 words to explain how to raise the front wheel.

 



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