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Lightweight kickstart levers - Having trouble?

Submitted by peter_holland1 on Tue, 16/10/2018
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Light Twins

For a couple of years the NOC spares scheme has been out of Lightweight kickstart lever assemblies. These have always been a stock item because the club had a LARGE number of NOS items which have gradually dwindled away over the last twenty years to nothing.

No other model has the same kickstart.

A similar diameter spline is used on a Villiers engine but the kickstart will hit the Norton silencer even if you force it on the Norton kickstart shaft. Steve, of Villiers services says their spline has a slightly different number of teeth.

There is now no known supplier of kickstarts for Lightweights since the NOC bought up all the lightweight stock from Russel Motors.

Lightweights without working kickstarts are useless.

Unless I'm wrong on any of the above, I believe it is time to approach the NOC and get a plan in place for a batch of new Kickstart assemblies.

Before I do that, please confirm by comment, that I've got most of the facts right.

Thanks, but I don't need to know how to saw up a heavyweight gear change lever, weld on a shaft, get it rechromed etc. or other workarounds.

Positive or negative?

Peter

Submitted by patrick_mullen on Tue, 16/10/2018

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Hi Peter,

I agree with you that there are no known sources for obtaining Lightweight kickstart levers and your facts are correct. The gearlever is also equally hard to obtain. Likewise seats etc.

Once upon a time the NOCshop held a large amount of Lightweight spares but it seems to be the case that as the stock runs out it is not being replaced; so quite a number of parts are now "out of stock". Possibly price of production might be the deciding factor; quite simply it costs as much -maybe more- to restore a Lightweight as say a Commando but the end product has a very low actual market value. So by definition the market for re-manufactured good quality spares is probably very limited.

Your idea is a good one to at least make an approach to Neil S at spares.

Patrick

Submitted by dennis_thompson on Tue, 16/10/2018

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If you are assessing demand I need one for my 1965 Jubilee. Please add me to the list requesting NOC shop to stock them.

The one I have is in poor condition and I have been quoted £80+ to have it re-chromed. That seems to be the price for any part to be re-chromed these days.

Dennis

Submitted by andrew_wibmer on Tue, 16/10/2018

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I have been looking for one for over two years, in my search I now have three, all of which are not good enough, I have spent a fair amount buying those. If a new one was available at NOC I would have bought one, but I gave up waiting. Same is true for styling panels - a pair of modified ones recently went on ebay for £120 plus if I remember right. Can't criticise NOC spares as we are restoring / making good 50 year plus old bikes. Tooling up for these spares can be horrendously expensive. Shortages is part of the "experience". I have had to learn a lot of new skills and have gathered around me a number of folk who I can go to for advice or help. Cutting / welding and re-plating is all part of the set of skills needed to keep these machines going - it can be quite satisfying as well.

Regards

Andrew

Submitted by peter_holland1 on Wed, 17/10/2018

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Thanks for your support guys. That example on ebay looks fairly worn to me but may work.

Anyone else feel that there is a need for kickstart levers for lightweights?

I appreciate that the cost of a few new kickstarts would be scary. At a batch size of 500 you could might be looking at £17 each using a forging and a broach to form the splines.

You might be looking at twice that for 100 kickstarts using investment cast product.

If a broach tool looks expensive, you can always pay more to spark erode the spline form.

This is the sort of discussion I would propose starting with NOC.

I have to show there is a demand.

Peter

Submitted by patrick_mullen on Wed, 17/10/2018

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Hi Peter,

The last quoted price on the NOCshop for a Lightweight kickstart was GBP 87.50 plus 20% VAT = GBP 105.00. So the figures mentioned by you would seem a bargain. Now that Neil has retired you might stand a chance of actually speaking to him.

Hopefully you will get more responses from owners as it would be useful to have an idea how many Lightweights are still in existence and potentially roadworthy. I have a feeling that there are very few.

Patrick

Submitted by dennis_thompson on Sat, 02/02/2019

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Did anyone manage to buy a kickstart from RGM and if so are they pleased with it?

RGM are out of stock and seem to have been for a while.

I just missed a NOS kickstart on eBay today and that went for £82.

Dennis

Submitted by jack_holgate on Sun, 03/02/2019

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I bought one and had it shipped to South Carolina, USA.  It arrived promptly and fit perfectly.  Looks good too.

Jack

Submitted by tim_harrison on Mon, 04/02/2019

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Well done Peter. As a consequence of this thread I was in the process of initiating a discussion about the manufacture of this part; it is clearly the case that there is no benefit to ourselves or RGM in now doing so. The forum has identified a good serviceable part on this occasion but no doubt there will be other times when this will not be the case, that is when we can hopefully step in.

Tim

 

Submitted by dan_field on Wed, 17/10/2018

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I need at least one as well, mine is hanging in by a few splines, I also have one with no splines! The club will prob need a good example to copy.

Dan

Submitted by michael_sullivan on Thu, 18/10/2018

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Since the company was Norton Villiers, take a look at some kickstarters from a Villiers engined unit. You never know if they robbed parts from one line to use on another.

Mike

Submitted by peter_holland1 on Sun, 28/10/2018

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Previously Dan Field wrote:

I know Terry Weedy was having some villiers kickstarts made for trials bikes, I hope heâll be at Telford in Feb and will take a shaft with me if we donât find anything before hand.

http://www.terryweedy.com/classic-kickstarts.html

Dan

Thanks for picking up on this Dan. As you can see from my initial post, I discussed the fit of Villiers kickstart with Steve on the Villiers stand at Stafford. Believe I was talking the person who ordered kickstarts for Villiers Services. He was very helpful. He said he'd lost count of Norton Owners begging for something that might fit their lightweights.

I can't find anyone who has bought an alternative kickstart that will fit the Norton Lightweight with standard silencers. Nor have I heard of anyone who has bought the Villiers kickstart and had success.

You could try... or .....The Villiers kickstart has the same diameter shaft....are the usual responses.

Please tell us if you think Terry could help us.

Many thanks

Peter

As this thread is a couple of years old, I dont know if anybody has more recent experinece. I have just looked at the Villiers Service website, which shows a very natty folding trials type K/S that is listed for " 9E/32A/34A/36A/37A and Starmaker engines".

https://villiersservices.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=83&products_id=1046

Is there any NOCCER with Villiers experience who can comment? Its currently £90, so more expensive than the RGM repro, but looks to have more of a crank on it if silencer fouling is your problem.

Again, I cannot speak from personal experience- I too am looking, so was gutted with 2 Jumbles being cancelled last weekend due to the virus.

Submitted by keith_hammerton on Mon, 12/11/2018

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There is a new old stock navi kickstart on e bay at moment at £65 one bidder at moment looks ok 5 days left Keith

Submitted by steven_tyrer on Sun, 18/11/2018

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Previously keith_hammerton wrote:

There is a new old stock navi kickstart on e bay at moment at £65 one bidder at moment looks ok 5 days left Keith

It wenttoday for £145.00!!!!

Submitted by peter_holland1 on Sun, 18/11/2018

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Previously Dan Field wrote:

It would cost that to have one altered and then chrome plated I expect. The repo ones are £100.

Hi Dan,

Can you point us to the seller of reproduction Norton Lightweight kickstart levers for around £100.? I started this thread because I thought the supply of kickstart lever assemblies had dried up completely.

I have no interest in persuading the NOC into kickstart manufacture for lightweights if they are available elsewhere.

Many thanks

Peter

Submitted by dan_field on Sun, 18/11/2018

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Sorry ...... bad wording on my part ð I can only point you towards repo kickstarts for other makes for £100!! Iâm taking a shaft and kickstart to the Telford show in Feb to see if the kickstarts Terry Weedy makes for villiers trials bikes could be made to fit.

The point I was trying to make is that in the scheme of things £150 isnât cheap, but it isnât expensive either! Itâs comparable to a new kickstart is for modern bike.

Ideally we need the club to have a batch made, thereâs clearly a market, I need 2 as a start.

Dan

Submitted by steven_tyrer on Mon, 19/11/2018

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Previously Dan Field wrote:

Sorry ...... bad wording on my part ð I can only point you towards repo kickstarts for other makes for £100!! Iâm taking a shaft and kickstart to the Telford show in Feb to see if the kickstarts Terry Weedy makes for villiers trials bikes could be made to fit.

The point I was trying to make is that in the scheme of things £150 isnât cheap, but it isnât expensive either! Itâs comparable to a new kickstart is for modern bike.

Ideally we need the club to have a batch made, thereâs clearly a market, I need 2 as a start.

Dan

To be honest I would prefer to buy from NOC and know its well made or in good condition than purchase from Ebay, and I would be happy to pay a deposit towards a batch being made

Submitted by keith_howe on Wed, 21/11/2018

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Hi I have been following this conversation avidly waiting for someone to come up with half a dozen kickstarters for £50 quid but no luck! However please add me to the list of persons willing to pay through the nose for a kickstarter.

Keith

Submitted by peter_holland1 on Thu, 22/11/2018

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Hi all,

Many thanks to you all for supporting the call for a new batch of Norton Lightweight kickstart assemblies.

I have incredibly good news.

RGM Norton Ltd. +44 (0) 1946 841261 www.rgmnorton.co.uk

RGM now have a sizeable stock of 'KICKSTARTER COMPLETE, FITS LIGHTWEIGHTS Part No: '042941'

I have ordered and received an example. Obviously I'm delighted. The parts have been commissioned by RGM and assembled in their works.

Beautiful chrome finish. The pedal joint has been greased on assembly by RGM. The fasteners are all stainless. The assembly comes with a fitted pedal rubber.

Alongside the original Norton part you will notice the lever is about 3 cms longer. The offset appears the same as the original, so should just clear the silencer, like the original. Every other feature looks like the original design.

Congratulations to Roger and the team at RGM for taking this initiative.

No need now for the NOC to get a batch started.

I've suggested to RGM that the part description is changed from 'kickstarter' to 'kickstart'. A small change but the lightweight item does not appear if you search the RGM site with 'kickstart'.

Happy days.

Peter Holland

Submitted by keith_hammerton on Sun, 25/11/2018

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Previously steven_tyrer wrote:

Great news and thanks Peter, Just orderedone :)

well done peter thats great news

 



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