Norton Twin Restoration Manual

Previously john_dunk wrote:

Does anybody have any comment on the Norton twin restoration manual by Roy Bacon, particularly in relation to Commando restoration?I was about to buy this publication when I noted a review on Amazon that really slated it saying it didn't get into the detail a restorer needs and assumed a lot of knowledge on behalf the readerAny views will be much appreciated! Or are there alternative restoration manuals, I am doing a complete strip and rebuildJohn

I have had this book for many years and find it invaluable, along with Norton Motorcycles since 1950 by Steve Wilson, but like all information you must interpret it for yourself.

Its a cut and paste job of Roy's tips, factory secsrvice bulletins manuals and press releases as are all Roys books, some of the pictures are good from a restoration point of view as they are not available elsewhere but the text is not specific enough to one model for it to be used for a restoration. Which model do you have,850 MK3's can be done by researching the various models in crates that have surfaced over the years.

Invaluable book. Wouldn't be without it. The review is malicious in my view.

No one book can do everything, so it's not going to be the only book you need. But that's not a fault.

Previously john_dunk wrote:

Does anybody have any comment on the Norton twin restoration manual by Roy Bacon, particularly in relation to Commando restoration?I was about to buy this publication when I noted a review on Amazon that really slated it saying it didn't get into the detail a restorer needs and assumed a lot of knowledge on behalf the readerAny views will be much appreciated! Or are there alternative restoration manuals, I am doing a complete strip and rebuildJohn

John - I have this book and do use it occasionally for reference purposes. If funds are tight I'd start by obtaining the correct workshop manual and parts list for your model/year - these are available electronically from several locations on the web (please message me for links if required).

I'd then look at some of the DVDs and the INOA Tech Digest available from the NOCShop.

In my view the Roy Bacon book is useful but it wouldn't be top of my list for a restoration and I wouldn't pay more than £20 for a copy.

Andy

Previously john_dunk wrote:

Does anybody have any comment on the Norton twin restoration manual by Roy Bacon, particularly in relation to Commando restoration?I was about to buy this publication when I noted a review on Amazon that really slated it saying it didn't get into the detail a restorer needs and assumed a lot of knowledge on behalf the readerAny views will be much appreciated! Or are there alternative restoration manuals, I am doing a complete strip and rebuildJohn

Hello I have both books Roy Bacon and Steve Wilson good to read but the only thing is their dates of manufacture of motorcycles I foundto be out by 12 months and the date of the first 650 was well out so are the dates of Atlas and Commando first Commandos were built in 1967 a year earlierthan stated the Atlas numberstart at 101xxx April 20th, 1962 first Norton twin in a featherbed frame was in April 1951 the first 650 was built on November 7th, 1960 and Not 1962 has StatedIn Roy bacons book and nothing much writtenabout the Export Norton he'seven missed out altogether the Model 77 1950-1951 these were all Roadholder Rigided Frames and had a 500cc Norton twin fitted and all exported to Austrailia and New Zealand in these years and did not make any mention of the two different seats fitted to the wildlineframe the first ones were made from 1951 to September 1954 then the new type after these and no mention of the exhaust system fitted to the Norton Manxman 650 has this was only made for this machine and never fitted to any other Norton in my mind the whole of these books need rewriting and updating with better and more accurate information I can go on with loads more information on Commando frames Yours Anna J Dixon

...so they are short of information about a tiny number of bikes that hardly anyone knows existed. But for the rest of us who have lesser machines than the Manxman, they have a great deal of information not easily found elsewhere.

incidentally - Bacon tells us ("Norton Twins page 52) the Manxman appeared in Autumn 1960 which is what Anna tells us. Atlas in 1962 agrees. His table of engine numbers for Atlas is not complete.

He also says first Commando was at Earls Court September 1967 which is again what Anna says.

Going by whatthey missed out in their book's one could also add the Unified Twin that is only mentioned in Roy Magarth's book Norton The Complete Story. I could also mention the hybrids as a lot of what is printed in these books is just wrong, and they never made an Atlas Moto X but an Atlas Scrambler.

Previously David Cooper wrote:

...so they are short of information about a tiny number of bikes that hardly anyone knows existed. But for the rest of us who have lesser machines than the Manxman, they have a great deal of information not easily found elsewhere.

incidentally - Bacon tells us ("Norton Twins page 52) the Manxman appeared in Autumn 1960 which is what Anna tells us. Atlas in 1962 agrees. His table of engine numbers for Atlas is not complete.

He also says first Commando was at Earls Court September 1967 which is again what Anna says.

Hello yes that maybe a tiny number but Hey there all importatnt has there Norton Motorcycles every last one and the Norton 650 Manxman was not built untill november 7th 1960 I do have factory records to confurme this past on to me speically from Joan and Dave Catton photo below is my Norton 650 manxman built december 1960 has its stamp marked on the top lug for the engine head steady 1/12/ 60 and rebuilt by me and nothing farmed out to restorers paint work was done by me yours anna j

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Previously anthony_curzon wrote:

Going by whatthey missed out in their book's one could also add the Unified Twin that is only mentioned in Roy Magarth's book Norton The Complete Story. I could also mention the hybrids as a lot of what is printed in these books is just wrong, and they never made an Atlas Moto X but an Atlas Scrambler.

hello yes well said, Anthony, they were only six built in 1959 the engine was a short stroke and now you Anthonyhave sorted two engines out and in frame and a very nice job you have done a real creditto you has there are no spare parts for these engines you have to get them made one off . that'sexpensive but well worth doing this shows there are members with a high degree of skill in the club yours anna j

As for six engines being made, as for my own research there were only two complete engines built. One was put into a Model 77 frame and tested at MIRA and also on the road by Fred Swift. They other engine was tested on the Norton Dynometer. I have another spare set of crankcases, a cylinder head, as well as the works development cam, and some other parts, but as for six engines being built and tested I have no real evidence that this is an actual fact. The hybrid info in these books is just wrong, and as it is in a book it is taken as the truth which it really is not.

The book is quite useful for anyone genning-up on Commandos. It is not truly a complete guide to the restoration but it includes a lot of information that wasn't available elsewhere when it was published. (With the internet, it is difficult to say nowadays what is and isn't available).

It will certainly point a potential restorer in the right directions for research and provides a good basis.

There are a lot of decent quality photographs, probably taken from the model-year press packs and which have not been re-published elsewhere. They may have been published at the time, but given the print quality of Motor-Cycle and MCN in the seventies, those photos would not be much use even if a yellowing copy could be found.

I don't know of an alternative with more and better close-up and general views of most models and years.

We're lucky with the Commando that the factory workshop manuals are pretty good and an essential purchase for anyone intending to work on their bike but for a truly accurate restoration, it's probably a good idea to get hold of a copy of everything published. Even the old Haynes Super Profile has some useful pictures and period road tests (The Commando offering was actually one of the better ones in that series).

As Richard says - it's a good book with lots of high quality photographs and lots of useful information about the models that are most likely to be encountered by most of us. It is nota complete guide to all models, so if you have an Australian export-only model, or even a USA export-only early Atlas, it might not contain all you might wish. But in answer to John Dunk's question - I think it's well worth having. And, assuming the Andover Nortonversion is printed to the same standard as the original, I think the price from Andover Norton is remarkably cheap and therefore good value for money.

It does not give instructions aboutre-building engine, gearbox etc, but (again as Richard says) it does have lots of information about model changes and appearance that are not so easily available elsewhere.

I bought the book for a Dominator restoration (actually I just threw it together). The book does have to spread itself very thin. There is no complete book on any of the twins. I bought all the books I could get. 2 by Roy Bacon, 1 by Mick Walker, all the factory manuals, Bert Hopwood's book, Ken Sprayson's book, Paul Dunstall's book, the spare parts book; and don't forget the INOA Tech Digest from America. I'm glad I have them all. There is a lot that is useful in each of them.

There is Commando info in all these books except the Mick Walker. You might think some of it is trivia, of course.

You missed out Norton The Complete Story by Paul Magrath. This book has a largechapter on the Commandos. There is also Cycle World on Norton. Norton also issued many service releases via their dealer network for all the faults that came up in the Commando series with all their relevant fixes. They also issued a complete description of the Mark 3 Commandos when they were first released to their dealers. Berliner also sent out the Norton service releases via their own dealer network in North America. They even issued their own Norton parts books back in the 1960's. There is also many Commando sales brochures for their home and export market models from the silver ones in 1968 to the last Commando Mark 3's. There was also issued ahuge poster type brochure for the Commandos when the bike was first released. This is shown in Mike Duckworths excellent book on the Commandos.

Derek Magrath

Previously Jonathan Soons wrote:

Derek Magrath

Hello Derek Magrath books are Some of the best if you can lay your hand on them but there not easy to find now But Has I said in a earlier thread that Norton owners club needs to take it upon them self to produce a good book that covers all Norton's built up to 1975 being with all the singles up to 1963 then the twins from 1948/9 to 1975 light twin has well heavy twins the rare models in the middlepages includingthe unit twins rebuilt by Anthony not to forget very earlyprototypes then this book would be then a good seller I would even help out , yours anna j