Norton Mk3 ? number ID or Batch number ?

Its the frame makers ID, it was supposed to be stamped under where the plate would eventually go and be covered up but like mine its outside. My MK2A has been registered using this number instead of the Red plate by the first dealer. So it shows you have an original frame not a replacement but the despatch books do not record this number.

It has nothing to do with VIN's, it's just a frame maker's number (metric frame made in Italy possibly), mine is 850 F110*** and is Nov 73 build for a 74 model year MK2A, but the stock control was non existent at both the Frame makers and Norton so could easily be out of a sequence especially as it was not related to the VIN.

The MK3 was a bit funny in that for a period they did use that number starting with F125000 for the first MK3 as the frame number but they dropped it after a time and reverted to engine and frame numbers being one and the same.

More info here

http://atlanticgreen.com/commandoframes.htm

eg

330419Apr-75#850#F130759

Your number will still be visible after powder coating.

Nothing to do with "framemaker's number" or "Italian frames"- the frame numbers are in the Despatch Records for Mk3s. The original books are at Andover Norton.

Mk3 frame numbers do not relate to engine numbers similar to the Norton pre-war bikes. All were recorded, so "stock control was non-existant" is also false. The non-matching frame/engine numbers are on record, as are the pre-war non-matching numbers. If somebody offers you a pre-war Norton with identical engine/frame number it is a forgery.

The saga about labels being intended to cover that number is a fairy tale. The numbers were in the r.h. side of the headstock, set intentionally apart from the plate, which faces forward.

My Mk3 was also UK registered on the stamped number. The so-called VIN plate only refers to US legislation and that seems to have been its primary purpose. A UK authority would always value a number factory-stamped onto the frame itself.

The only puzzle to me is why Commandos for so long didn't have one.

The fact that the Mk3 Parts book clearly states 'Frames from F125000' when engines were at 325000 clearly shows what the factory intention was prior to the model launch.

During certain phases of 850 Commando production the frame numbering system was notoriously chaotic. My MK1A 850 has a VIN plate with just the production date "9/73" stamped and the space for a frame number left blank. The stamping on the frame itself reads "100F0015". Dave Catton , Twins Records Officer , whose assistance was solicited to sort out a Historic re-registering hitch with DVLA , told me he'd never seen a frame number like this but that Norton numbering system and records around this period (when Norton Villiers was in receivership and NVT was being born) were very inconsistent anyway !

Previously james_fanning wrote:

During certain phases of 850 Commando production the frame numbering system was notoriously chaotic. My MK1A 850 has a VIN plate with just the production date "9/73" stamped and the space for a frame number left blank. The stamping on the frame itself reads "100F0015". Dave Catton , Twins Records Officer , whose assistance was solicited to sort out a Historic re-registering hitch with DVLA , told me he'd never seen a frame number like this but that Norton numbering system and records around this period (when Norton Villiers was in receivership and NVT was being born) were very inconsistent anyway !

Amazes me Dave Catton knows this. All records bar of a handful of very early 850s are lost, and only Andover Norton has the original 850Mk3 Despatch books. Judging from existing bikes is not the best indicator. I have seen a lot of freely invented engine and frame numbers over the years hammered into Commandos in order to register them for the road somewhere or to veil the fact they were stolen.

The 850 Commando records in the VMCC have been added to by what appears to be information relating to the first registration of Commandos in the UK. I made the assumption that this information came from DVLA and was incorporated during the period that the earlier ledgers were with the Scotland Yard Stolen Vehicle Squad.

By the end of the Commando period, bikes supplied to UK dealers had typed Vehicle Licence applications pre-completed by NVT and should be correct.

If the NOC has micro-film of the same copies then it would be true to say that the Club Records Officer has access to a fair cross-section of Commando production numbering details.

Do DVLA, by the way, accept information from Andover Norton for dating purposes, as a successor to NVT ?

Previously joe_seifert wrote:

Previously james_fanning wrote:

During certain phases of 850 Commando production the frame numbering system was notoriously chaotic. My MK1A 850 has a VIN plate with just the production date "9/73" stamped and the space for a frame number left blank. The stamping on the frame itself reads "100F0015". Dave Catton , Twins Records Officer , whose assistance was solicited to sort out a Historic re-registering hitch with DVLA , told me he'd never seen a frame number like this but that Norton numbering system and records around this period (when Norton Villiers was in receivership and NVT was being born) were very inconsistent anyway !

Amazes me Dave Catton knows this. All records bar of a handful of very early 850s are lost, and only Andover Norton has the original 850Mk3 Despatch books. Judging from existing bikes is not the best indicator. I have seen a lot of freely invented engine and frame numbers over the years hammered into Commandos in order to register them for the road somewhere or to veil the fact they were stolen.

The strange frame stamping numberon my MK1A 850 is originalhaving ownedthe bike since 1977. The problem I had with DVLAwas that when applying for Historic tax class ,stupidly I tried to also rectify the frame number anomaly on the V5C where underframe number it hadthe same number as the engine number despite the space on the red VIN plate for frame number being left blank (just the date stamping "9/73" is there above it).DVLA queried this writing to Dave Catton to request his verification of what was stamped on my frame.Living quite close, Dave came over (for the prescribed fee) andchecked myVINplate and frame stamping. Whatever hereported back to DVLA did the trick as I got my new V5C with Historic tax status - DVLAmerely reverted to the previous registration details using the sameengine number for frame number - which in reality it isn't ! Moral of that one is don't try to change any other details on your V5C when applying for Historic status !