Bad news for me as RGM will no longer take on workshop services, except camshaft re-stelliting! I might get one done, but I really wanted my cylinder head fitted with new guides, seats re-cutting and - most importantly - a Helicoil insert to one exhaust port. They are the only people I know who do that. I'm not interested in having the head weakened by boring out and having a billet aluminium insert with new thread cut.
The heads aren't the best castings in the world and might well show up porousness. As an engineer I'me also not keen on having material removed and reducng strength. Helicoiling only needs minimal cutting and is a hardened steel thread unlikely to fail again.
I have replaced valve guides before on my Norton and Jaguar XK engines, so that isn't a great problem, but I would like to know if there is anyone who would do a helicoil exhaust thread and valve guides with seat cutting. Rough prices for cutting would be useful as the other option is to buy a cutter for £79.
There is a previous thread…
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Yes I know!
Thanks Niall. I have read about SRM and some not very kind remarks about them - particularly their prices.
I am exploring other companies and will let the club know if and when I find one that can be added to out very short Services list on cylinder head work.
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Two years ago I used FD…
Two years ago I used FD Motorcycles of Great Dunmow , Essex for my Mk3 850 RH4 cylinder head total refurb which included valves and seats , guides and repair of broken fins. Good job with head back on bike and no running issues. Cost 500 quid and took a couple of months - they have a healthy customer queue for cylinder head work. They have a website.
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On my list
Thanks James. I've contacted them and had a general response. I've contacted Norman White, but he is up to the eyeballs with work - might fit it in as a hospital job as & when, Summer probably. Only the guides and seats.
I also contacted Banda Engineering, who just sent an email asking me to call them. Also Kevin Traill, the only one on the NOC Services list. He said £80 - £100 for fitting guides & re-cutting seats plus parts.
On balance I am still considering doing the guides and seats myself. I am happy to buy a seat cutter - which an earlier posting attracted responses including things like "Don't waste money on a cutter you'll only use once - get someone else to do it!. That is fundamentally wrong as a) I might use it on another bike (I have a 1962 navigator) and b) I'll be buying it on eBay, which means I can sell it on eBay, like anything else. It would be nice to be able to hire one, and a half-time pinion extractor, but that doesn't seem possible. I may as well buy what I want and sell it afterwards!
I have accumulated many bits over the years that I will be able to sell at up to twice what I paid for them!
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I've used Mike Pemberton &…
I've used Mike Pemberton & Pete Lovell for head repairs - would recommend them both if still operating
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BLR Engineering
If you want a company in the South London region that can sort out problems with Norton Cylinder Heads then my recommendation would be BLR Engineering. That' s only if they are still active.
BLR Engineering Ltd
8 Clyde Rd
SM6 8PZ Wallington
Greater London England
020 8395 2203
07717 317288
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BLR appears to still be…
BLR appears to still be active: at any rate their website is still up, if somewhat minimalist: just one page featuring their Colsibro valve guide work (http://blrengineering.co.uk). Their email is sales@london-engineering.co.uk.
I'd point out that Phil's rendering of their address is slightly misleading; it is
Unit 8, Clyde Works, Clyde Road, Wallington, Surrey, SM6 8PZ, UK
The house numbered "8" in Clyde Road is at the opposite end of the street to Clyde Works.
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Manufacture only?
Their minimalist website only seem to show that they manufacture valve guides. Do you know if they do the fitting and seat re-cutting?
If not they are of no use to me as there are plenty of suppliers of valve guides.
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Clyde Works is home to…
Clyde Works is home to various engineering fanglers. My head was done by JD Autoworx of the same address; their website is no longer visible, but I dare say that even if BLR aren't up for fitting it is likely that they can arrange it.
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DiY
Rather than send the head away to strangers (!) I might do it myself as I did many years ago. I do have an option withing a reasonable distance from me which I might consider. No rush as I was just doing some idle thinking - as you do nowadays!
Thanks for your input chaps!
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I have a valve seat cutter you can borrow.
i have a valve seat cutter for a Jubilee you can borrow for the cost of postage if it is the right size. I am not sure if the valves are the same as yours. I fitted new valve guides bought from NOC shop so I have a drift and reamer as well if you need them. I imagine postage would be £10 or so due to the weight. I have done my jobs for now so I do not need the cutters for a while.
Send me a message through NOC if you are interested.
Dennis
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Thanks Dennis
I saw your post about the NOC possibly having a hire service. No doubt it's been considered many times over the years - maybe even tried? Fraught with problems though and it would need maintenance as has been said.
My Dommie has 1.5 inch (38mm) inlet valves and 1 5/16 in (33.32mm) exhaust, so I don't know if your kit would suit. The valve stems are 5/16" (0.312"/7.923mm). Thanks for the offer.
I'm considering buying a small set from eBay with 5 cutters - 4 x 45 deg and 1 x 20 deg x 1.5". This could give me a gas flow into the inlet using a 20 and 45 deg, not that I'm looking for speed! It only costs £55.30 and it's a proper one from India! LOL! As I've said, I could sell it after I'd used it and I won't get the seats recut for that money! I still have my guide drift somewhere. I last used it on a 1964 Jaguar 3.8 litre engine! Same O.D.!
There is a larger set for £79.19, but they list the cutter angles as 45 deg (good) and 70 deg ( I think it's really 30 deg the way you normally measure). Both these kits have carbide cutters which are essential for the hardened Norton valve seats. The bigger kit also has fixed size reamers - 5/16" and 3/8". The smaller one would suit the guide bore (for the valve stem). I have an expanding reamer covering the 1/2" range used for the guides - used on Norton and Jaguar!
Nothing is happening for a while though as my projects are buried deep in the sheds!
The other hire tool could be a half-time pinion extractor. £55 - £60 to buy!
Watch this space
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Not the same valve size unfortunately.
Lionel, your Dommie valves are not the same size as the Jubilee unfortunately.
I bought my cutters and arbour from India and the arbour takes different sized cutters. I am very happy with it but it did take months to arrive (not withstanding a blocked Suez canal!). I would recommend the carbide tipped cutters.
Dennis
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"Plan B"
Thanks Dennis. I didn't think they were the same. I've had to do a rethink about the Indian cutters as I've just watched a YouTube video which say they are complete junk! The biggest failing is that the pilots are not accurately sized so give too much run-out. They are critical to the whole operation and should be no more than 0.002" undersized.
Have you checked the diameter of the one you used for the Jubilee?
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You are right to be wary.
Lionel,
You are right to be wary as the quality of cutters varies enormously. Luckily, mine are good quality. I used engineer's dye to check the cut of the seat in the head by smearing it thinly on the new valve and checking the fit after each thin cut. It did not take much to re-cut the seats and the valves required very little grinding in afterwards so I am satisfied with the job.
I guess it is almost impossible to know what you will get with an ebay purchase from India and I was probably lucky but I paid over £100 for the two cutters and arbour having discussed it with the seller by email.
Perhaps, you might be better trying to find a reliable local engineering shop. I did look at getting the work done professionally but decided to do it myself as heads for a Jubilee are cheap and plentiful.
I have used Meridian in Cambridge for work on my Jubilee in the past.
Home Page (meridianengineservices.co.uk)
Good luck,
Dennis
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DiY
Thanks Dennis. You'll see from my postings here that I am considering using a professional service, but they are few and far between! There is a possibility within 12 miles of home (Not keen on posting a cylinder head anywhere!) but it is also down to cost. I am able to do the work myself given the right tools. It seems you were lucky with your Indian cutters but you paid a much higher price than those I've seen on eBay - as I mentioned before.
I'm not expecting the seats to need much cutting - only because you have to recut after replacing the guides. Hopefully it will be minimal and is likely to only take a few minutes for each one.
As quality is variable it could be worth me going for a more expensive kit and selling it afterwards - as I would have done for a cheaper kit. They must be carbide for hardened seats though, not High Speed Steel.
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Machine cutting needed.
Hi again, I've pretty much decided , after a fair amount of research that, if I go for professional services, the seats must be machine cut, not hand cut as accuracy isn't so good. In that case I would do it myself. The best cutters to buy seem to be "Neway", but they are sold by the Armanaleg Company!
I will ask the few companies I have found and ask what systems they use.
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Neway Cutters
Yes they are not cheap BUT the set I have with a replacement value of over $2000Au. are over 35 years old and were used every day for 16 years before I sold my shop, working mostly on Kawasaki Heads, the hardest of the Japanese brands. They cut true and you can get seat widths down to 10 thou if you think you need to. They are also 1 degree off the required seat angle which means you don't have to grind the valves in after cutting the seats. The result is better than most Vibro Centric done seats and faster and cleaner, there is no grit to worry about.
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL OUR READERS
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There is a previous thread on this, SRM in Wales will do all that stuff, but they look at your head, tell you what they think it needs and give a price for the lot, no cherry picking, your head will be perfect but it will be £££s.