More magneto mire

None sorry ... I trusted mine to APL mags in Shaftesbury! I don't know if Al Os knows anything about them? Worth a call?

George. Why not take it to the guy at Lanivet? You both can look at it there and then. I am sure he can sort it, and no doubt test it for you at the same time. I don't mean Lanivet Motors; this chap is over the road, and magneto's are what he does. I will dig out his details, but if I can't find them I can take you there if you like.

Fully insured postage both ways is expensive, plus whatever else, and however long it may take.....

Cheers. Ian

George, I take it you have access to a manual? See

britishonly.com/pdf/lucas/sectionL5partB.pdf

Hi George, in a perfect situation we can use Skype, or Facetime & we can fix you up "LIVE" via the interwebs if that is an option for you?

If not, my best guess is that you have not seated the drive plate all the way home. This can be tricky, as the woodruf keys MUST be full seated in their respective keyways first. If you are unsure, put the drive plate on without the keys first & put a mark on the armature shaft with a marker for reference, then remove the drive plate, install keys & then install the drive plate again & see if the hub of the drive plate is located far enough onto the shaft to line up with your reference mark.

Then the five finger spring, tab washer, and nut. do you have the tool for holding the fiber gear from turning when you snug up the nut?

Please let me know how you make out!

Also, what town are you in?

All the best,

Skip

Previously George Phillips wrote:

Managed finally to get all the parts back into the mag only to find that the driving-end cover will not go on properly. It stops with about a 1/16" gap between the cover and the body. It is prevented from moving any closer by the locking nut. I have had it all apart and re-assembled it but no improvement. I've tried tightening the nut as much as poss but to no avail. The mag is an MLO1. I'm really about to give up on this mag project and take Anna up on her very kind offer but I just hate admitting defeat. Any clues? George

Hello did you fit the isolatingwash over the bear at the drive end if not you have to strip the mag has it will not work without this wash in place, yours anna j

Hey George,

please allow me to comment what Anna has written.

I assume she means the insulating washer, not isolating washer. It is a paper washer that insulates the outer bearing race from the case. I am sure you have not removed the outer races, so no worries.

If the insulator fails the mag will still work, but if the earth brush were to fail & the the insulator failed at the same time, bearings would arc & become pitted & eventually wear away.

Skip

Previously George Phillips wrote:

I've given up. I'm posting it off to Anna. At least I might have the bike back on the road by summer. I might also find out what I was doing wrong. I'll let you all know for future ref. George

HELLO George Today I have Receivedyour Post And Made A Start On your 1955 MO1L mag dyno I cannot see an insulating felt washer behindthe bearing on the point end plate but found Insulatingfelt washer and two counter-sunk screws in a small plastic bag, the fibregear seems to protrudingout and catching the cover plate now I haveto make a tool to remove the fiber gear has specifide in the manual I have a Number of LuCas Manuals we give every thing a clean and the see what the problem with it , we sort it not mater what , i will come back to like new yours anna j

Hello This Magdnois just like the one I did On my Norton 1951 Es2 I and wish I still had it today good old motorcycle and a good go to work bike yours anna j

Hello George well to remove the bearing outer race I will have to warm things up to let it just drop out but I will do this in an oven so I get some tempura control this type of alloy does not stand for to much heat so I have to be very carefulwith it, I do have spare felt washers so we see I am 63 today so a Day off and You do to worry I sort it will be better than new have FUN

Yours Anna J

Previously George Phillips wrote:

Happy Birthday, Anna! You're entitled to ONE day off! George

Hello, George, I have tried To email if you got my email you know I need your phone number so we can have a talk about this Magneto of yours hope to hear from you soon Yours Anna J

Previously George Phillips wrote:

Hi Anna - just to confirm that I can't phone you as I don't have your phone number. George

phone number 01430430831 after 5 pm

Hello For NOC members This Magneto I am doing for George Is a bit of a mess new armature that'sout of round by 0.005 thou which is just enough to catch in inside the body and make a contact shorting out the magneto process, So the only way I can think of is taking out about 0.005 thou out of the body the magnet fits to one side and its only magnetised steel I am grinding out bit at a time and very carefully to making measurements in-between times on my mill drill I use a fine set of stones from this process . has you cannot take anything off the armature you disturbed the windings inside, more up dates later on yours anna j

Hi Anna,

Surely, if the armature is out of round by 5 thou, then it's the armature that needs putting between centres and correcting because the shaft is bent. Or are you saying that it's 5 thou off centre with the housing? If it's 5 thou off centre with the housing, then it's the bearing location that needs looking at no?

Previously Bob Matthews wrote:

Hi Anna,

Surely, if the armature is out of round by 5 thou, then it's the armature that needs putting between centres and correcting because the shaft is bent. Or are you saying that it's 5 thou off centre with the housing? If it's 5 thou off centre with the housing, then it's the bearing location that needs looking at no?

Hello thanks Bob for your good remarks you madevalidpoint And I have measuredthe body housing and it's out of round too would you believe, By the way the shaft is not bent I have had my Mercer clocking dialgaugeon it too, In my Atlas 10 inch Lathe, It looks like to me the Armaturesteel centers are only out on their edges has that'swhere it's catchingthe inner part of the body on one edge only at the top right-hand side the bearing are new ones and have been fitted right there square on in their housing and insulated by the felt washers fittedright and all square and true . I think I only need to take a few thou off one side, but before doing this I will re-check everything again and make sure All is true and in line, I do not intend rushing this job and will check things has I go Has I would like to get this right and working right to thank you for your input and I keep you posted yours anna j

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Previously Bob Matthews wrote:

Hi Anna,

Surely, if the armature is out of round by 5 thou, then it's the armature that needs putting between centres and correcting because the shaft is bent. Or are you saying that it's 5 thou off centre with the housing? If it's 5 thou off centre with the housing, then it's the bearing location that needs looking at no?

Hello thanks Bob for your good remarks you madevalidpoint And I have measuredthe body housing and it's out of round too would you believe, By the way the shaft is not bent I have had my Mercer clocking dialgaugeon it too, In my Atlas 10 inch Lathe, It looks like to me the Armaturesteel centers are only out on their edges has that'swhere it's catchingthe inner part of the body on one edge only at the top right-hand side the bearing are new ones and have been fitted right there square on in their housing and insulated by the felt washers fittedright and all square and true . I think I only need to take a few thou off one side, but before doing this I will re-check everything again and make sure All is true and in line, I do not intend rushing this job and will check things has I go Has I would like to get this right and working right to thank you for your input and I keep you posted yours anna j

I have been following this thread with interest and i am amazed at some of the comments which have been made about George's MO1 magneto. Firstly i have rewound and rebuilt hundreds of MO1 magneto's in my 50 years of repairing magnetos and i have never had a problem reassembling one. Giving someone a magneto to repair with very little knowledge on how they were built and assembled is very dangerous as it is possible that they can damage the magneto beyond repair. As stated in the previous threads there is no such thing as a felt bearing washer, they are called insulating cups and come in different thickness's. There are also rear bearing housing shims and armature shaft shims (fitted between the HT slip ring and bearing) which also come in different thickness's. Between these you will obtain the correct position for the armature and the clutch cover with the proper gasket will fit perfectly. I was shocked to read that anna was going to remove metal from the magnet in the body which must not be done. If there is a tight spot, (which can sometimes occur once the armature has been rewound and put in the oven to cure the varnish), the bobbin can distort due to the heat in the oven and this can be rectified with a SLIGHT skim of the armature. Also with the magneto being apart it is a good idea to remagnetise the body. You only want your magneto to be rebuilt once so i suggest that you have it done properly and contact a professional. There are quite a few advertised in the services section of the NOC. Paul Wolf -Magneto Repairs. 07831 446958.

Hello I think your trying to say I have very littleknowledge because my name is Anna ! well i can put your mind at ease i done these jobs before now but this one is not a good mag to start with its made up from new and old parts and I have not done much to it yet but clean up some Burrs and odd marks and done some measurements and looking at getting some feedback from you guys So thank you for your contributions but in engineering there is more ways than one, to do a job, it just needs some thinking about ! And I just trying to help out and, Iam not asking for any payment in doing this job like some of you experts that charge a fortune for just a small job

yours anna j

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Hello I think your trying to say I have very littleknowledge because my name is Anna ! well i can put your mind at ease i done these jobs before now but this one is not a good mag to start with its made up from new and old parts and I have not done much to it yet but clean up some Burrs and odd marks and done some measurements and looking at getting some feedback from you guys So thank you for your contributions but in engineering there is more ways than one, to do a job, it just needs some thinking about ! And I just trying to help out and, Iam not asking for any payment in doing this job like some of you experts that charge a fortune for just a small job

yours anna j

Hi, I certainly am not saying that because your name is Anna, you have very little knowledge, but from statements i read in the thread, there is a lot of incorrect advice given, maybe through lack of experience in repairing magnetos. I cannot comment on your statement " that some experts charge a fortune for a small job," (that certainly is not the case with myself) as i have not had the experience of letting other people repair magneto's. I have given free advice to many NOC members and tried to help them as much as possible and i even test members dynamo armatures on my growler free of charge apart from return postage.If you need any help,please call me.Paul Wolf Magneto Repairs 07831446958

Previously George Phillips wrote:

Hi guys - you'll notice I'm keeping my head down while the missiles fly from one to the other over it! The history here is that the armature is what was on the bike when I bought it and looks pretty new. The body c/w magnets is one from ebay that I bought 'cos the one on the bike had a crack across the housing by the side of the dynamo drive gear at the the thinnest part. The plan was simply (!) to take out the innards and fit them in the replacement housing. As Skip pointed out I probably didn't tap the Woodruff keys in far enough and could not then get the end cover on so took up Anna's kind offer of re-assembling it all for me. Simples - no? George

Hi George,If you got the body from Ebay i do recommended that you get it remagnetised.Cheers Paul

Previously George Phillips wrote:

Hi guys - you'll notice I'm keeping my head down while the missiles fly from one to the other over it! The history here is that the armature is what was on the bike when I bought it and looks pretty new. The body c/w magnets is one from ebay that I bought 'cos the one on the bike had a crack across the housing by the side of the dynamo drive gear at the the thinnest part. The plan was simply (!) to take out the innards and fit them in the replacement housing. As Skip pointed out I probably didn't tap the Woodruff keys in far enough and could not then get the end cover on so took up Anna's kind offer of re-assembling it all for me. Simples - no? George

Hello well I have freed up the disc for the fibre gear and it nowfits like a glove over the armatureshaft, now with paul wolf offer his services it now up to you George How I now proceed further is up to you, I can skim the armature steel centers up by filing by hand on thelathe turning the lathe by hand and checking with a set of clocking dial gauges it's in your hands , but even if you get another body does not mean this armature will fit right you may sill need work doing on it either way, Has I have armature isolation on only 1 quarter of the rotation of the armature it's catching the sides inside the body yours anna j

Previously George Phillips wrote:

Hi guys - you'll notice I'm keeping my head down while the missiles fly from one to the other over it! The history here is that the armature is what was on the bike when I bought it and looks pretty new. The body c/w magnets is one from ebay that I bought 'cos the one on the bike had a crack across the housing by the side of the dynamo drive gear at the the thinnest part. The plan was simply (!) to take out the innards and fit them in the replacement housing. As Skip pointed out I probably didn't tap the Woodruff keys in far enough and could not then get the end cover on so took up Anna's kind offer of re-assembling it all for me. Simples - no? George

Hello well I have freed up the disc for the fibre gear and it nowfits like a glove over the armatureshaft, now with paul wolf offer his services it now up to you George How I now proceed further is up to you, I can skim the armature steel centers up by filing by hand on thelathe turning the lathe by hand and checking with a set of clocking dial gauges it's in your hands , but even if you get another body does not mean this armature will fit right you may sill need work doing on it either way, Has I have armature isolation on only 1 quarter of the rotation of the armature it's catching the sides inside the body nothing is bent or out of line yours anna j

pity you couldnt have found something like this one at the time George and had it recondition .

http://spacottagecollectables.co.uk/product/lucas-mo1l-motorcycle-magneto/

Barry

It may be worth buying that one anyway George. It is not much money, for a back-up/spare?

I know what you mean George. It is easy to accumulate parts that will never be used; I've got a garage-full!

Ian

its ok George get your other sorted just thought it may help.

the one in the other link isn't the one i was on about for some strange reason its changed, this is the one, i hope

http://spacottagecollectables.co.uk/product/lucas-mo1l-motorcycle-magneto-3/

Barry

Previously George Phillips wrote:

That's more like it, Barry.I could be tempted by that one. Let's hope my own mag is returned soon and I can then decide on the next step. I'm still hoping to be on the road by Easter! Thanks for your input. George

HELLO George if you like to give me your address So I have somewhere to send it too but the armature is a bit big for the body and is catching inside, So No isolation and No Spark but it's now back together and better than I got it has the end cover now fits right my emails go to Bt-yahoo, and you have to spell my name right or your email will not get anywhere you need to put it in like this all low case annajeannette@btinternet.com now after my Member ship runs out I will be changing my email address yours anna j

I have just been directed to this topic by someone and although I usually tend to try and stay out of conversations on magnetos, not wanting to look like I'm advertising, I thought I'd chip in this time...

I must confess I'm a little confused as to how we got from a drive end cover that doesn't fit to insulating cups and removing material from the magnet (OUCH!)?

When an armature has been reassembled following a rewind, it should have been checked for running true by running the armature on its bearing tracks â NOT BETWEEN CENTRES â with the clock on the small end of the taper. If it is found to be out, it needs correcting. Yes, an out of true armature is very likely to make contact with the body but removing metal from the o/d of the armature and/or from inside the body to provide clearance is NOT the way to go. It will still be out of true so that needs to be sorted first.

Once it is running true, if it still scrapes the body THEN it will be necessaryto remove metal. But take this from the armature, NOT the inside of the body. This can be done as Paul suggests with a light skim, but it might be easier to put some engineerâs blue on the armature, put the mag together and find the high spots. Then just relieve these with a file. You want to remove as little material as possible as the bigger the gap between the body and armature, the less efficient the magneto will be. How you do this will depend on what equipment you have in your home workshop.

As for comments about the armature shorting out with the body and stopping the spark, this is simply wrong. Of course you donât want any scraping for obvious reasons. But from an electrical point of view you DO need the body and armature to be in contact for a spark to occur. What do you think the earth brush is there for?

There is a great deal about how to make a magneto work properly which is not immediately obvious. We have quite a few technical pages on our website that you might find of interest: www.themagnetoguys.co.uk . If we can be of any further help please get in touch. Either andy@themagnetoguys.co.uk or 01323 840203. I agree with Paul - this needs to be given to a professional who a) knows what they are doing and b) has the right equipment to be able to be able to do it properly. I suggest when you get the mag back you contact either myself or Paul and go from there.

Hope you get it sorted George.

Previously Andy Marks wrote:

I have just been directed to this topic by someone and although I usually tend to try and stay out of conversations on magnetos, not wanting to look like I'm advertising, I thought I'd chip in this time...

I must confess I'm a little confused as to how we got from a drive end cover that doesn't fit to insulating cups and removing material from the magnet (OUCH!)?

When an armature has been reassembled following a rewind, it should have been checked for running true by running the armature on its bearing tracks â NOT BETWEEN CENTRES â with the clock on the small end of the taper. If it is found to be out, it needs correcting. Yes, an out of true armature is very likely to make contact with the body but removing metal from the o/d of the armature and/or from inside the body to provide clearance is NOT the way to go. It will still be out of true so that needs to be sorted first.

Once it is running true, if it still scrapes the body THEN it will be necessaryto remove metal. But take this from the armature, NOT the inside of the body. This can be done as Paul suggests with a light skim, but it might be easier to put some engineerâs blue on the armature, put the mag together and find the high spots. Then just relieve these with a file. You want to remove as little material as possible as the bigger the gap between the body and armature, the less efficient the magneto will be. How you do this will depend on what equipment you have in your home workshop.

As for comments about the armature shorting out with the body and stopping the spark, this is simply wrong. Of course you donât want any scraping for obvious reasons. But from an electrical point of view you DO need the body and armature to be in contact for a spark to occur. What do you think the earth brush is there for?

There is a great deal about how to make a magneto work properly which is not immediately obvious. We have quite a few technical pages on our website that you might find of interest: www.themagnetoguys.co.uk . If we can be of any further help please get in touch. Either andy@themagnetoguys.co.uk or 01323 840203. I agree with Paul - this needs to be given to a professional who a) knows what they are doing and b) has the right equipment to be able to be able to do it properly. I suggest when you get the mag back you contact either myself or Paul and go from there.

Hope you get it sorted George.

Thank goodness Paul and Andy are now on the scene. As for a while I thought the project was going T one TS UP..

Yes. A light smear of engines blue on the inside bore of the stator. Assemble it and after a couple of turns the dismantled rotor might have picked up a spot or two of blue. A few light strokes with a smooth flat file is all that is required. Repeat the treatment.

If you think the rotor is running out.

V blocks under both journals, then clock it

Regards to both.

Martin Jones

Previously George Phillips wrote:

Sorry about the typos, guys. It's my birthday. 'nuff said! George

Hello George.Regarding your outstanding magneto.Has it been returned to you yet.Why I ask . Is that next weekend I am at Coventry.En route. I pass with 5 miles of AJD. With your instructionI could collect and post it from Coventry or pas it on to a member who lives near to you.Please advse me in plenty of time.Kind regards.Martin Jones Hull

Previously martin_jones1 wrote:

Previously Andy Marks wrote:

I have just been directed to this topic by someone and although I usually tend to try and stay out of conversations on magnetos, not wanting to look like I'm advertising, I thought I'd chip in this time...

I must confess I'm a little confused as to how we got from a drive end cover that doesn't fit to insulating cups and removing material from the magnet (OUCH!)?

When an armature has been reassembled following a rewind, it should have been checked for running true by running the armature on its bearing tracks â NOT BETWEEN CENTRES â with the clock on the small end of the taper. If it is found to be out, it needs correcting. Yes, an out of true armature is very likely to make contact with the body but removing metal from the o/d of the armature and/or from inside the body to provide clearance is NOT the way to go. It will still be out of true so that needs to be sorted first.

Once it is running true, if it still scrapes the body THEN it will be necessaryto remove metal. But take this from the armature, NOT the inside of the body. This can be done as Paul suggests with a light skim, but it might be easier to put some engineerâs blue on the armature, put the mag together and find the high spots. Then just relieve these with a file. You want to remove as little material as possible as the bigger the gap between the body and armature, the less efficient the magneto will be. How you do this will depend on what equipment you have in your home workshop.

As for comments about the armature shorting out with the body and stopping the spark, this is simply wrong. Of course you donât want any scraping for obvious reasons. But from an electrical point of view you DO need the body and armature to be in contact for a spark to occur. What do you think the earth brush is there for?

There is a great deal about how to make a magneto work properly which is not immediately obvious. We have quite a few technical pages on our website that you might find of interest: www.themagnetoguys.co.uk . If we can be of any further help please get in touch. Either andy@themagnetoguys.co.uk or 01323 840203. I agree with Paul - this needs to be given to a professional who a) knows what they are doing and b) has the right equipment to be able to be able to do it properly. I suggest when you get the mag back you contact either myself or Paul and go from there.

Hope you get it sorted George.

Thank goodness Paul and Andy are now on the scene. As for a while I thought the project was going T one TS UP..

Yes. A light smear of engines blue on the inside bore of the stator. Assemble it and after a couple of turns the dismantled rotor might have picked up a spot or two of blue. A few light strokes with a smooth flat file is all that is required. Repeat the treatment.

If you think the rotor is running out.

V blocks under both journals, then clock it

Regards to both.

Martin Jones

Hello someone its try to tell me how to suck eggs when it comes to engineering I do know what I am doing I did go to university, And not past it,! And you cannot just put the armature on V bloc's and clock it!! Has there is bearings each end and one end is tapered so you cannot get an accuratereading , I do have a number of V bloc's but the best way is in the soft jaws of the Atlas Lathe this will give you and accurate reading has the other end of the armature shaft is held by the tail stock, And I just happenedto live on my own and go out to work all week and in a lot of pain from arthriticknees and bladder on the blink So I have had not much of a chance to do much with it But the body it not one of the best, I do know how to do magneto without some guy trying to tell me, what Ialready know about!! I had not had the chanceto set up the Atlas 10-inch lathe to skim off the out of round on the armature but George will find that the end cover plate now fits right has it did not when I receivedit has the keyways were overlarge and the end nut was thread bound so I filed the threads up with my needle files this took me 3 hours to do and get it nice and free running on its threads and the key way need filling up so the steel end plate fitted right for the fiber gear, I had the armature in late with my two Mercer clocking dial gauges on it fitted to magnetic blocks . I foundthe armature was out of round by 0.006 thou at one side only just enough to catch when fitted back in the body of the MO1L since George instructed me to send him in back I have done so. But Given time I would have sorted it and made this mag all work right, but got interferencefrom others, so get off my case and bother someone else! I have done nothing wrong to anyone ! yours Anna J