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Alternator Clarification for Mk3 Commando - 1977 build

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To Clarify:

My Andover Norton workshop manual (publication number 00-4224) states;

Technical Data section A - Alternator type RM23: 180 watts

Technical Data section J - 6 charging cells ( so it is two wire - single phase)

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Andover Norton website spares - indicates the same part numbers but the wattage is 150w

Item 23
ALTERNATOR STATOR LUCAS RM23 150w 2 wire (47239) in stock part-no: 06.8101

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RGM website spare - indicates the same part numbers and the wattage is 180w

068101STATOR - ALTERNATOR - SINGLE PHASE - ELECTRIC START - 180W - 47239

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Questions

Is the installed unit 180w or 150w as standard?

Why upgrade to a higher than 180watt system? - assume Lights etc.

Why upgrade to 3 phase? - 3 wires.
 

Just asking because I am considering the “solid state” options for my electrical system and wish to match everything up before I start.

 

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Just lower your power needs by going LED lights in headlamp and tail, an original working alternator with a well magnetised rotor will have no issues even with the added drain of the starter motor over the previous models you can run lights on all day. Check your rotor by removing it and then placing on the floor, place a large screw driver on the top magnet and lift, get it replaced or remagnetised (A O Services) if it stays on the floor. 

You would have to ask AN why they can't supply a 180W single phase.

Thanks John

Appreciate comments on riding with lights on etc.

Need to clarify my starting point for the “ solid state” options along with upgrading to a higher wattage when I think I should be OK with 180w (if that is standard already for a Mk3).

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If your current setup is working then leave alone, if its not then you can get 200W single phase combined regulator/rectifiers to replace both rectifier and zeners. Being a MK3 wiring changes will be needed as the paired zeners is a unique setup as they are used as diodes as well as voltage regulation, you would need to replicate the pre MK3 setup.

I am looking at the RGM offer:

RGM sell TRI SPARK MOSFET RECTIFIER/REGULATOR ZENER DIODE (POWER BOX) PART NO VR-0030 £85.90 includes capacitor built in.

Definitely upgrading as I do not want to rely on old mechanical technology for electrical reliability.

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That is special one to stop Trispark ignitions from being interfered with by other rectifier/regulators output. Unless you have Tri spark ignition (which is very sensitive) then you do not need to pay out the extra expense. A cheap Honda type will suffice as long as it can handle 200W or 17A but lay off the Wassell one as that suffers from leakage to earth which drains batteries. I use a Mosfet rated 35A for my 3 phase alternator.

The old setup is electronic too, it was dynamo's that had mechanical regulators.

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I used a Tri Spark ignition with Podtronic rectifier for a long time without issue in my MK3, the problem tends to be the pre MK3 which have the smaller battery. Noticeably, those with Alton starter and Tri Spark ignition didn't experience problems either, and this is quite an old combination of equipment. 

The Tri Spark ignition and Mosfet rectifier are quality items, simple to install. However the WLA will not work with the rectifier, but again upgrade to Al Os battery status monitor, brilliant bit of kit, on a couple of occasions it has indicated all was not well, and the faults took some finding.

The old idea of tapping off some of the AC to make a warning light function is old hat. It indicated the rotor was going around and the stator is outputting AC at some level. It now makes sense to use all the output from the stator to be rectified as efficiently as possible, and with LED tail board of lamps and compact H4 led which does not get hot and fits the MK3 headlamp shell, you'll only need the RM 23 stator. The latest 3 phase offerings of stator don't fit inside the chain case, so if you go that route you'll need to find an older version of 3 phase stator. 

Reviewing the Podtronic POD4-1-HP option, looks compatible to the Mk3 setup.

I will need an extra module to handle the charge warning light (Red).

Lucas Rita AB11 - Single Phase - 2 wire alternator - Positive earth fitted.
 

Anyone out there with this option installed on a Mk3 - feedback and advice would be appreciated.

I had a Podtronics PO-1P-HP single phase on my MK3 Commando with the original WLA

and Trispark-Ignition, no problems. Even it could interfere with the Trispark Classic-Twin Ignition,

but not in my case.

 

Edit:

It is recommended by Trispark to avoid interfering with an additional condenser or the Podtronics

POD-1P-MAX with built in condenser.

But the Trispark R/R is more efficient than the Podtronics R/R but not compatible with MK3 WLA.

 

 

 

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I have recently completed a Mk3 rebuild using a RM23 and Trispark Mosfet, as Ashley states [and Trispark did not] the standard warning light assimulator is not compatable with this type of setup it took me 3 WLA's to find that out, another update is a bigger battery in my case a YTX16 [I believe a YTX20CHBS is the same dimensions] and as stated the YTX16 fits with the standard MK3 airbox.

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The single phase alternator stator on the MK3 is an RM23 (two wire)

Lucas part number is: LU47239

You can also find it under Wassell part number: WW10190

It is a 16 amp stator (compared to the 10 amp RM21 on the pre-MK3)

 

The zener diode used to regulate the output at the time was right at it’s limit on the pre-MK3, so when the higher powered stator came along, Lucas had to re-visit the whole idea. Hence two zeners (used on the AC side)

It’s a compromise for sure, and the charge voltage to the battery is around 0.7 volts down compared to the older charging system.

 

The three phase system is an excellent upgrade, as you can achieve a similar charging output at lower RPMs, so much better suited to riding in today’s modern traffic.

I have written a lot on my site about charging, and the importance of balancing your power consumption with your charging.

Some information here: https://granttiller.com/choosing-a-new-alternator

 

Don’t hesitate to reach out if you have any questions.

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I have had good success with the “Standard Charge Warning Light - £16.95” from Improving Classic Motorcycles.

 

I like them, as they allow you to retain the original warning lamp, which is particularly important with the MK3 and the quirky little instrument panel.

https://www.improvingclassicmotorcycles.com/products.htm

 

A couple of notes:

  • The Tri-Spark MOSFET reg/rec is not a special one to stop Trispark ignitions from being interfered with.
    It is a more modern type that provides a smoother power output versus the older reg/recs.
    Tri-Spark electronic ignition issues were only reported to manifest on specific models of PODtronics reg/rec.
    As the OP has a Lucas Rita, this is of no significance.
     
  • The two zeners on the MK3 are not matched at all.
     
  • The charging technology on all Commandos is silicon-based, and very solid state (ie nothing is mechanical).
    So unless you go up the MOSFET route, you are not actually updating anything to more modern technology.

 



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