1960 Navigator Rebuild Part THREE

Well done. It is looking good. By the way your speedometer is not the correct item for a Jubilee or Navigator. The dial shows a figure of 1760 (cable turns per mile) and goes up to 80 miles per hour; correct speedo is 1600 turns per mile and goes up to 100 miles per hour. So it will not show the correct speed - it will indicate a lower speed than actual so be careful in the city speed limits.

Patrick

Looks like left hand drive to me ..... my ignition switch is on the other side, but which is right?!

For what itâs worth I think mine has the same speedo as that.

Did you get the front mudguard sorted?

dan

Yes there are potentially all sorts of different ratios for the rear wheel gearbox as well !. The 'correct' one to match the 1600 speedo is a 2:1 ratio. The 1600 speedo is quite hard to find at auto jumbles as it may be unique to the Norton lightweights (and possibly the Francis Barnett Cruiser.)

There are all sorts of different of different 'cable turn ' numbers as this Smiths speedo design was used on all sorts of Francis Barnetts, BSA Bantams, Triumph Tiger Cub, James, etc. It is only when you start looking seriously at the speedo face that you discover how many different versions there are. The first part of the reference number also varies as well; SN3153/95 1600 100MPH on both my Navigators; the earlier 1959 Jubilees have a 80MPH speedo and it's a different SN number.

I agree with Uli's switches; ignition switch on the right but I doubt if it is critical unless you are VERY seriously into concours.

I had a Honda VFR400 a few years ago and the MOT man failed it because the speedo was in KmH. I had to put a sticker on the dial reading in MPH.

Will the TUV Inspector query your MPH speedo?

Previously patrick_mullen wrote:

I agree with Uli's switches; ignition switch on the right but I doubt if it is critical unless you are VERY seriously into concours.

Damn that means mine is left hand drive!

This is mine

Rattle can respray for now

Not that speedo is much better than a chocolate fire guard, it still swings a good 10mph radius once moving! I have a new one from ebay I might try plus the ammeter is just a push fit at the moment.

Hi Dan,

That speedo looks fine to me. It is highly likely the correct one for a 1960 Jubilee. A needle swinging about is usually a cable fault- have you tried re-routing the cable to get the bend as smooth as possible or maybe some light oil on the inner cable.

Here's the flight deck of the Yamton - the 120 mph speedo and the rev counter do work. The headlight is the standard 5 3/4" but the original 'tell tales' have been replaced by warning lights for Neutral and Oil Pressure.

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Here's the one that would really suit Uli's Navigator. It's a KmH speedo for a Navigator.

We are a bit mixed up here ; we still use MPH and miles here in the North but a few miles away in the Republic we use KmH and kilometers.

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Well done. You certainly don't hang around. I had forgotten about the Ariel Arrow as a potential user but from now on it is a Norton Navigator speedo. Both my Navigators have this same reference number but they both have a white marker line at 30MPH. It is amazing the differences even when they have the same reference . They are 60mm- not 2" -and you can get the correct new chrome rim on Ebay UK.

It will keep you gainfully employed taking it apart and renovating. You can do this over Christmas sitting by a big fire in the living room. The first proper snow has just fallen here last night - so I'm staying away from my workshop until the Spring comes.

By the way if you do get a new rim make sure you get the 'flat' one. There are two different profiles.

Nice work, love the blue colour, always hated dull colours on motorcycles!

Just to encourage you an amusing film on YouTube!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dq29LKzMkQ

Patrick, where are you with that snow?

Cheers

John H

Hi John,

I'm in Co. Tyrone, Northern Ireland, about 15Kms from the (no)border with the Republic. Our vehicles here are subject to MOT (done at special Government test centres so different to the English version), or NCT if you live 10 miles away, but we all know they are very much the same as the German TUV. (TUV here has a different political meaning !!)

Picture of my front lawn taken just now - it is still snowing and temperatures will be well minus tonight.

Patrick

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That does look neat and tidy. We really need an opinion from Andy as to what is strictly correct-does anyone else know?. My opinion is that the wiring loom through the left hand hole is correct; throttle(gas) cable through the right hand top is correct. I have the choke cable and the wires to the horn through the bottom right. Neither of my Navigator clutch cables were long enough to go this route and didn't allow free movement of the handlebars. So if you are happy with the operation of the cables your routing is much better than my version. My clutch cable just runs behind the top left hand of the styling panel but my excuse is that the clutch operates smoothly that way.

Everyone of my Jubilees/Navigators has a gap between the panel and the tank.

Hello Uli,

OIL SEAL HOLDERS TOO SHORT.

You may already have checked this but have you screwed the damper rods fully into the chrome nuts at the top of the fork legs? This is often forgotten when assembling.

Nice BM. I thought that BMW's never broke down.

Patrick

What a lovely job indeed, I have recently had a bit of encouragement to actually finish my own Jubilee, itâs sat around for seven years now, do you have any idea of the paint code number, I fancy going for a copy of your colors.

Thank you Kelvin (Isle of Man)

Hi Ulrich, thank you for the reply. I shall check with the two powder coaters we have on the Island.

Cheers Kelvin.

Is the primary chain tight?,that will mess up gearchange and pull the clutch out of line. A bit loose is better than tight.

As I recall jumping out of first is a layshaft issue that can be solved by shimming it?

https://www.nortonownersclub.org/noc-chat/technical3-light-twins-forum/321440639/596735320

dan

Well done.

Jumping out of first gear should be easy enough to sort with a shim but let it run a bit first and see how things settle in.

If the clutch lever isn't going all the way back to the handlebars then there is something very wrong in the clutch adjustment; it sounds like the clutch actuating arm is going over centre. Screw in the cable adjuster until you have excessive slack in the cable then adjust the clutch push rod by using the adjuster nut in the centre of the clutch pressure plate. (Take off the primary cover to do this ) Then readjust the cable to give about 4/5mm free play.

Happy Easter. There is more snow forecast for here over the weekend.

Ulrich:

Certainly sounds good!

Great job.

Mike

Looking good Uli, hope mine looks that good when finished but itâs just an engine on the bench and boxes of bits at the moment!

Dan

The NOCshop keeps the shim but I don't know the exact sizes. I think they are around 10 or 20 thou in thickness. Oddly enough the early 1959/60 gearbox did not have any shims listed in the 1959 parts list - they seem to have appeared in 1961 parts list. Presumably this was a case of Norton responding to wear in the gears. Most people probably just make them out of some shim material. You have the advantage here in trying the Commando shim.

Yes that clutch is a pain in the neck as every time you remove the primary cover you get a new set of oil leaks unless you make a new gasket each time. This links to your handlebar levers query as well as in my experience the clutch cable with the adjuster at the gearbox end won't work properly if you use the later levers (with the adjuster in the lever). So I don't know if the BSA levers would work with the Norton handlebar mounts. It could be worth sending an email to the Ebay supplier- he has been around for a few years and just might know the answer.

Levers without the ball-ends are actually correct for the 1960 manufactured year but testers can I suppose query this.

MOT rules here are sometimes very odd - for example our 1958 Morris Isis needs working screen washers to pass yet it doesn't need seat belts !. Most new regulations are not back-dated when they are first introduced but apparently when the law was introduced about screenwashers it was. So it is a case of what is the actual law in Germany.

Uli, As I recall the plain plates are the same as later amc clutches but the friction plates are different. Iâll be surprised if the gears are trashed, they are pretty robust,

dan

Hi Uli,

There was a change in the clutch plates somewhere about 1960 and it seems you have parts of the earlier version.The inner back plate for this earlier version uses part number 21268, then 2 bonded each side friction plates separated by three plain clutch plates. Your thin steel plate then goes under the pressure plate but I thought this was bonded on one side. The later version uses a shouldered clutch plate number 22765 as the back plate with three friction and three steel plates. (I think- it's easier if you have the plates in front of you). All sorts of combinations turn up and surprisingly they often work quite well.

In theory the AJS/Matchless lightweights are probably the same gears-so are some Francis Barnett ones- but how do you actually know this for certain until you actually try them in position. Dan's right - the gears are probably fine - after all you had the gearbox apart and would have spotted any real damage to cogs etc.

Hi Uli,

Suggest you have a look at AMC spares. Steve has both types of lever, ball ended and plain, with a 7/8" lever centres. This is certainly important with the Dominators' but unsure if this is an issue with the dare I say it ' lightweights?' He is very good to deal with.

http://www.amcclassicspares.com/

Hope this helps.

Keep up the good work!

Regards Steve

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Previously Ulrich Hoffmann wrote:

Another question!

I guess I need ball ended levers for safety reasons to get TÃV in Germany.

I have bought the levers from NOC spares which are plain. Item code: SS23 29_23646/7

Can I use these instead?

https://www.ebay.de/itm/BSA-C15-AND-BANTAM-BALL-ENDED-HANDLEBAR-LEVER-BLADES/401502637491?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649