Pondering an ES400 Electra

Just to place on record some of the known and not so known facts. The frame is basically the Francis Barnet (the Jubilee has the FB front forks/brake) while the Navigator has the Roadholder forks (and Heavyweight front brake) The Electra having these parts and the Atlas/heavyweight rear brake, and some frame strengthening plates. The Electra (all lightweights) also have Wipac electrical parts.Although Wipac have gone the parts seem to go on well. The ignition coils and stators last well, unfortunately the rotors are on a 1" crank so Lucas rotors do not fit, but the Wipac rotors do last very well. The lighting and Ignition switch are identical (different knobs) and are a bit flimsy but they have been re-manufactured. The starters are Lucas? and seem to on for ever, but the starter sprag can suffer 'age' but is relatively easy to rebuild. Electronic ignition is recommended, (2X6V Wipac coils is recommended) but of course you have to be careful with the drop in battery voltage with the starter. Do not mess about with twin 6V batts, go over to a decent 12V one.

Rewiring is not an issue, if the loom/wires are original they will be tired, so fresh wiring will be a good idea. You can't change the rotor, the stator if it works and is in good order is best left alone. If you want to change the light/ign switches to something else then best of luck finding finding something to do the job and look original and fit in the headlamp. Changing the points adv/rtd for electronic is very much worthwhile, but fit 6V Wipac coils, they fit under the tank well and are more reliable than the modern 'lucas' look alike. Changing the battery charging system is also very worth while. Nothing wrong with Wipac parts.

Interesting comments from Al; quite positive. I do agree, the FB pressed tin frame is not exactly a plus point, and I did read a road test which said the handling was pretty poor; most un-Norton like!  Having said that, how will it be ridden? 

I am surprised you think the asking price of £3999 is well overpriced. Supply and demand; there are not many about, and I am sure plenty, me included, are thinking the way you are. It will cost £3k + vat at Norvil prices to convert a current Norton to electric start, for parts alone.

Meanwhile, if your brother has fallen out of love with his model 18, do let me know. What a lovely bike! Caveat; depending on which year it is.....

What do you want from your handling?? Yes the Featherbed is superlative, but the Electra can be bounced from foot rest to footrest without losing its direction or feeling it is wagging its tail. It is a small bike so expect such characteristics.

An old friend of mine, Spencer Robinson, raced a Navigator in one of the endurance production races of the early 60's. It slashed it down and blew a hooly all the way. The Navigator won the 350 class and Spencer said it handled brilliantly. Limited ground clearance on the corners was not a problem. The only win for a Norton lightweight in a major race I believe. 
​​​​​So handling is OK. 
If you don't buy that one you indicate , I doubt you will get anything better. It looks like a very unmolested model from dry storage in USA. 

On my way to Tossa de Mar on my Electra. 300 miles down, including 200 in the national deluge of Wednesday. Sunny in Brittany now for 5 days R&R before continuing in 150 mile hops. 

Go for it Ian. 

Peter
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Well worth a test ride and a once over, Ian. As for the Model 18, the Burman gearbox is no match for the later AMC offering. IMO 1957 is the best year for the AMC heavyweight singles; but I digress!

Let us know how you get on!

Its Beautiful!
Looks very unmolested.

He asked if I had anything for sale...but I have nothing like this!
Wish I could afford it!

If you remove the original battery support behind the battery box, and remove the voltage control unit on the rear mud guard, you can get in behind the tool box a 9AH Motobatt battery which is just adequate to spin the starter. You will have to rig up some battery supports as you go.
Do be aware that the battery terminals are getting close to the bottom of the seat. Consider a piece of plastic as a separator. 

I have a motobatt 75mm at 9Ahr it does the job.

Being parsimonious, I just have 1x 12v battery in the Toolbox - with the starter cables under the seat coupled together. Works a treat - & the starter flies over ok.

However, a note of caution...this only works if you are still on points - as being skint (see above) I still am. If you have Electronic Ignition, then you have to find a battery(ies) with the best CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) figure you can find.

The problem is, that when you use the starter motor, the battery voltage drops - quite alarmingly so with a less powerful battery. Battery voltage can drop to 9v or less - at which point some electronic ignitions cease to function.

I knew a chap with an Electra, where the starter motor made the engine crank over easily, but it would not fire until he let go of the starter button - if he timed it right, it would then start! He had electronic ignition!

Remember, if you are fitting Electronic ignition, you have to change the ignition coils as well for 2x 6v ones (or a double output 12v coil). Either way, you cannot use the existing 12v coils, as most systems fire both coils at the same time, so you need 2x 6v coils in series.

Hi Andy,

Really interesting to hear your solution to the classic Electra battery problem.  I can confirm the voltage drop issue with electronic ignition fitted with my Electra which is fitted with the excellent Pazon system.   When I brought it, it was still fitted with two very different cheap 6v batteries in series which would spin the engine over reasonably well but unless they were fully charged it just wouldn't start on the starter.   

I wasted weeks trying to find a single 12v battery of sufficient Ah and CCA small enough to fit in an Electra's  battery box and finally realised one didn't exist when I heard Al Osborn's advice and solution.    As my bike is pretty original I am keen to keep it that way so I didn't want to change the under seat battery holder or loose the original voltage regulator which is still working - imperfect though it is! 

An alternative solution I am experimenting with is to fit two Yuasa YB5L - B 12v, 5.3 Ah 60 CCA batteries at circa £20 each which are a perfect fit for the original battery holder (picture attached).  I have simply wired them in parallel which gives a theoretical 12v 10.6Ah.   This has given quick and reliable cold starting for 8 months even in sub zero temperatures last winter even without turning the engine over with the kick starter to break the cold oil 'stiction' before using the starter!  

I appreciate this isn't a perfect solution because the batteries won't necessarily charge evenly, not helped by the original voltage regulator but to try and minimise that problem every three months I have fully charged the batteries using a modern smart charger.  So far the batteries have stayed fully charged despite infrequent use and only short trips.  Now the spring has arrived and I have solved the persistent oil leak from the right hand cylinder head I plan to use it much more which I hope will keep the batteries healthy.   I will report back as I learn more!

Thanks for all the help and advice!

Nick

Wow that looks spot on Ian! You must be dead chuffed.

How about a few more pics, as it looks so original?

Edit: but I still don't like the "cigar" silencers, I prefer the Dommie style ones. But that's just my opinion....

Hi Ian, 

Andrew has fitted a centre stand similar to Navigator and Jubilee. 

I find in my old age these models are quite hard to get on that stand. Foot on little peg at nearside foot of stand and pull back left handlebar end. Steady things with the right hand on the 'lifting handle'. And grunt. Not so lightweight!! . 

Electra centre stand is available from the club and makes for a much easier lift as you put some weight on the lever provided. More in keeping with your desire for an easier Norton. 

Peter

2 small screws holding each lens (you can still get the original lenses from Germany),complete replica lamps are also readily available on the internet , remove lens, remove festoon-type bulb. There's an expanding bolt thingy, bit like the old rawlpugs. Slacken the nut, this enables the expander to loosen and the body of the lamp slides out so the wire can be disconnected.

Ian, 
The bushes on all lightweight stands are the same. 
A plate under each frame side provides the stop for the stand when deployed. These can get a bit worn and the stand angle changes. Bike slumps down. 
Suspicion your bike has a Fanny B centre stand, which will fit but is lighter weight tube fabrication than Norton cast item. 
Peter

I don't like bar end indicators as you can't chuck the bike against the garage wall!! You need 10W lamps. And in this picture above the wiring is Japanes.
Cary on.

Wiring runs through the bars and exits through a hole just above the top yoke. Pic attached, you should be able to see it just above the steering lock.

Anyone else fancy an Electra ??

  Lot 203 - A circa 1964 Norton 400 Electra, engine & (lskauctioncentre.co.uk)