Electra temptation!

The ignition timing does NOT need sprag to be removed. You use the stator as is. There is a picture on my web AOSERVICES.CO.UK  The  original TRI con switch is quite rare and needs preserving/repairing as needed. Pattern Tricon switches do NOT have a proper starter button. To use a pattern switch you will need to add the relay to reverse the electricty to operate the starter solenoid, again details on AOServices.co.uk. If you have an original Tricon that needs some TLC, I might be able to do it.

If your switch pulls up the starter then there is every chance you have the original. Any from any modern supplier will NOT incorporate any relay. I wouldn't presume the NOC Triconsul is suitable ie it will be a pattern one.

Hi Nick,

I have a '63 Electra.

1.  I have found it best to remove a silencer. Remove stand pivot and stand spacers with the stand UP. Spring tension will be minimal but you have to support bike (Side stand?) Or better. Now lever the spring from centre stand cross bar and remove other end of spring from support hook.

2. Yes. Alan suggests you add timing marks. I chose to use a timing disc fitted to the inner bore of the starter drive ratchet. Photos attached. I made the expanding collet.

3. No. Some may say they can leave one end loosely attached and swing the plates out of the way.

4. All Electra without spigots.

Have fun. 

Peter 

Nick,

Separate picture because of file size.

The cylindrical collet is tightened and that leaves an M8 stud sticking out. A timing disc is bolted to the stud. Wire indicater can be seen. Set zero degrees to tdc with TDC finder. Set Pazon manually using disc. Then final strobe check. 

My Electra restore featured over 5 issues of Real Classic in 2016 / 17. Photos from there.

Peter

No need to remove anything to do timing. The rotor has a scribed line, but best to ignore. Find TDC, mark the rotor against a stator mark (I suggest the timing spacer I show) fit timing disc turn engine back to fully advanced ignition point, make 2nd mark on rotor. Start engine and strobe. Yes you can remove one end of the reinforcment plates, swing them up and remove heads/barrells.

Suggestion is to raise the gearing by one tooth on the gearbox sprocket, makes it an easier ride.

Hi Nick,

I have huge misgivings about solid copper gaskets on the later spigotless lightweights. The larger contact area to be compressed, the slender 5/16 studs, and the need to fully anneal the gasket before use. Perhaps some later Navigator owners have positive experiences.

I use composite Jubilee head gaskets. Had my failures with these too. My fault. You must ensure head nuts are free running down all the stud top cycle thread. If they jam half way, the stud has been stretched and the torque applied to the nut is wasted in a deformed thread.

Tighten nuts progressively to 15 ft lbs only and in sequence shown in Norton published Twin workshop manual.

Retorque at 150 miles, 400, 1000, and annually. Ignore at your risk. See photo.

These composite gaskets settle alarmingly, but settle down eventually and make a decent seal.

Often, the hole location in the composite Jubilee head gasket is poor. Rather than force the gasket over the stud threads, which creases the thin copper skins, carefully ease the fit with a fine round file in the gasket holes.

This all sounds a lot of faff. It is. Are you sure it's not running OK?

Be interested in other views.

Peter 

I have never used full copper gaskets on any of my, bike engines and have not had any issues with the following regime over a 60-year period of using it.

On a four-point fixing on a cylinder head I would steer clear of all solid copper gaskets as generally the spacings between them are far too great for them to be effective in sealing oilways.

The size of the fixings is too small to cope as the torque settings are not sufficiently high enough to make copper gaskets "form" across the mating surfaces to affect a secure lasting seal.

My instincts tell me there is a need for at least six but manufacturers see a cost benefit in going with just the four and let the consumers sort out any issues that may ensue.

Eyeleted gaskets/compound gaskets are much better suited and more reliable in the four-stud layout providing they are torqued up to the appropriate settings at intervals similar to those quoted in the previous post above, plus the tappets readjusting to finish the job at the same time. 

From reading your post I get the impression that you take note of the finer points of owning and enjoying restoring your bike so, as to prolong this joy the aftercare as described above is one of the "must do" to be carried out before you can say "job done".

I went for a pair of Powerline 6V 6Ah 6N63B AGM batteries that I got from Tayna.

I personably prefer two 6 volt batteries in series, they charge and discharge evenly, acting as one and there is less heavy cable bulk around the terminals.

It’s working well for me.

2X12V in parrallell? The problem here is, yes you get 2X5AH=10AH for a while....but eventually one battery will drop in voltage, the other battery will then charge it untill both are flat! 2X in Parallel is fine to sart an engine NOW! but in a few months you will find one or more have failed. 2X6V in series might be better, But I have just fitted a 12V 11Ahr AGM and it does seem very willing. I also prefer the 12V battery under the seat, with a few modifications, leaves the tool box for......tools.

The Wizzard of Oz needs to carry tools on his bikes? But I thought......

1-00 we can cary on! First of all I removed the original Voltage regulator, a strange Wipac device that appeared to still work, yes it increased the charge rate on my Electra but a subsequent check of battery voltage showed that the battery was either under or over chargeing. So after removing this Wipac box I fitted a Traditional Zener diode. All was now well with battery charging. (nb Zener diodes no lnger available so the modern regulator/rectifier has to suffice.) (By the way MIke-don't think.......)

We also removed the original under seat battery tray/support. This gives you room for a 12V battery under the seat. The actual dimensions you will have to juggle with as you make another basic bottom platform and I used the total space to hold the sides of the battery. Initialy a single12V 11Ahr worked but soon had trouble with the starter. Now the AGM MB9U looks very capable. (the battery also fits the featherbed battery box!)

Wow, those tanks look amazing! Great tip about the Lotus colour, might have to look into that at some point.

Good luck with the rebuild, keep the pictures coming to inspire the rest of us!

Its been written above that the Electra's ignition can be timed without removing the starter mechanism over the end of the crankshaft. That is incorrect. The alternator, however, can be left in place.

The Electra, as well as the Jubilee & Navigator, have two obstacles that need to be overcome, hence we need access the the end of the crank.

• The Rotor (despite assurances above) is not marked - unlike the Lucas item.
• We need to set up a Timing Disc to find Top Dead Centre (TDC).

I have written the procedure many times, and it is outlined in "The Norton Twins Manual" how to go about determining TDC. You need (1) to set up a timing disc, and (2) a piston stopper - easily made up from an old-type spark plug.

To setup a timing disc, you need to undo the nut on the end of the crank and fit the disc with a distance piece behind it, so that it clears the stator. The Jubilee & Navigator models provide you such a distance piece under the nut - simply invert it to provide support. On the Electra, you remove the starter gear, and make a distance piece (I made one from a bit of plywood).

Now, with the plugs out, back wheel in the air & 4th gear selected - find TDC as best you can with a pencil, and have a wire pointer show it.

Then, insert the piston stopper into a spark plug hole and gently rotate the engine by means of the rear wheel until the piston is stopped by the 'Stopper'. Note the reading on the disc. Rotate the engine backwards until it stops and note the new reading.

Example: If reading 1 was 38° and reading 2 was 34°, that is a 4° difference. Move the pointer by half this amount (2°) to read 36°. (These figures are examples - yours will be different!!).

And now the IMPORTANT BIT! - Check it!! It should now read 36° (or whatever your reading was) in both directions. If so, you have now found true TDC - and discovered you were 2° out. Maybe not so important on the Big Bikes with their long stroke engines, but CRUCIAL to get it right on the Lightweight Twins, due to the Ultra Short stroke & OverSquare nature of the motor.

When checking your timing, use a 'proper' strobe (a battery powered one) - AND - power it from a separare battery, not from the vehicle that you are testing.

If Electronic Ignition is fitted, you only need to time the ignition once, as both plugs fire at the same time. Luddites (myself included!) who are still on points, have to time each cylinder individually - which fact alone should be enough to persuade us to ditch our contact breakers and get modern! I'm told you get better lights too! Must try it!! :)

For more info - contact me on lighttwins@nortonownersclub.org

Piston Stopper:

Timing Disc & Pointer:

Andy's words-get modern! I'm told you get better lights too! Must try it!!  could be missconstrued. As read it infers that getting 'modern electronic ignition' gives you better lights? Some facts, there are several types of electronic ignition you can fit to these bikes, most of them are wasted spark, with one timing point. Fine but these type are better run on 12V (2 ignition coils in series). Using a 6V system can incure problems due to poor battery charging regulation= highvoltage on the ignition system and electronic failure. So 12V with it is better battery charging/regulation must be recomended. But you can get 6V electronic ignition (if you must)

BUT BUT Lights-these do get better on 12v? Yes BUT this is due to the effect of the losses is reduced with 12V ie the resistance in your tired dodgy switches, rotten connectors, ancient wiring is less of a problem at 12V than 6V hence your lights get 'brighter!' BUT again 6V lights can be as good as any12V Watt for Watt. I have done it and can advise.