I took my 1958 99 out to the Merrie Lion and Motor Museum meets today and was impressed by the club representation at both sites. Once out of the narrow lanes and onto the B4100 I got the bike up to speed - it was running well and then started to falter. I pulled in and gave things a once over - pushing wire contacts together etc. A club member stopped just as I was about to try starting again - it started and kept running and I continued to the museum. When leaving, the bike started easily again and then kept running until I got to Banbury. I checked the plugs - there was a spark but didn't look very strong. Plenty of fuel in the tank and the tickler flooded the carb easily. After a while I called up my son in his big van and got a lift back home (probably more use than a Fathers day card). I continued to look at the bike and pushed contacts together again and gave the battery a quick charge as it didn't have enough in it to run the headlight. Still not running but I have sparks and fuel. The distributor had some oil in it from a head gasket oil leak I have yet to attend to. I had adjusted the timing the other day to get better running. It does not seem to have slipped. If I have compression, sparks and fuel could the timing gear itself have slipped so sparks don't happen anywhere near the right point?
Points dont need much oil to…
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If your lights.....
If your lights do not work then your battery is flat. If there is oil in the 18D2 from the head gasket then the rear of your bike must be awash with oil! For timing to slip the 18D2 body must be very loose, the drive to it cannot slip, chain/sprocket.
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If the trouble is oil on the…
If the trouble is oil on the points, then cleaning them will make it run better.
If the timing pinion has slipped, you'll detect that by checking the timing.
Some reproduction points sets and plates give trouble, such as the points pivot coming loose so the points close up.
Why would the battery be flat?
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Two possible reasons the…
Two possible reasons the battery might be flat - either not charging due to lead coming adrift or that I had had the ignition on for some time trying to start the thing.
The bike lost power and needed me to change down and rev to keep it going before giving up entirely. Initially there was electricity in the battery when it stopped.
When experimenting with timing the other week I found there was a region of several degrees variance that the bike would start and run but ran best after some adjustment. I need to find the correct torque settings for the head bolts - I have found the two suggested diagrams for the order of tightening - and get a suitable torque wrench (only have only of those bendy pointer bars to hand currently). Hoping to get the bike running reliably again for the end of the month when I am booked into Bloxham Steam Rally.
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Setting the ignition timing…
Setting the ignition timing to the correct figure is usually beneficial.
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I can remember checking the…
I can remember checking the timing with a Disc and strobe some 30 years ago . Since then i just set the timing so a very mild kickback can be produced if a halfharted kick is tried. If it kicks more then its usually because the points have closed up a bit and attention is needed. I did not posess a torque wrench then and just used common sense , The head has not been off since. But a small oil leak if thrashed might spur me to take it down . A good charged battery is the first requirement. . An unworn carb is good investment, and will save many hours of unrewarding fidling .
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I can see the points are…
I can see the points are opening and closing. I might try cleaning them again. The condenser has been moved out of the distributor. I had adjusted the timing because I felt the engine didn't pick up as I felt it should - the adjustment did seem to help it speed up better - it felt less 'flat'. Yesterday morning the bike started second kick.
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Is the advanced - retard…
Is the advanced - retard moving freely. Can you move it one way and it spring back Set point gap to 15 thou. I would then start it warm it up . let it idle . Then move distributor left or right , turn so rpm gets fast . then turn it back until rpm drops. Ride check for pinking . if pinking stop and retard a bit more adjust carburettor
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I gave the battery a good…
I gave the battery a good charge and really cleaned up the distributor , points and rotor arm. The bike started up and ran OK indicating it was charging when running above tick over. Next step is to sort the head gasket leak. I'll check previous receipts to see if it is a composite type - my understanding is that once the composite types start to go there is no going back unlike the copper ones that get pulled down 4 times before they settle? I have a new copper gasket ready..
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Not so
The bike started up and ran OK indicating it was charging when running above tick over.
This is NOT the case. The battery voltage (and current if measured) confirms battery charging. Nothing 'what so ever' to do with starting and running.
The flat battery is initial cause of not running except with hi revs. Non charging of battery needs to be fixed or flat battery syndrome will reapear.
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More info needed
How original is the electrical system? 6 or 12 volt? You can read all about testing the alternator on Als website. His service data sheets are a goldmine of information. Will the alternator power a headlight bulb (to the point that the bulb will blow if the engine is revved) when the bulb is directly connected to the alternator. This is one of the tests in Als service notes.
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I was taking the ammeter…
I was taking the ammeter needle moving to the right when the bike was above tick over as an indication of the battery being charged. When the bike isn't running but ignition is on the needle moves to the left. There was a loose connection that I have pushed together coming up from the alternator. Prior to the longer run out last Sunday I had been riding the bike a couple of times a week for up to 5 miles at a time for 2 months. The electrical system is still 6 volts with contact breaker. The light switch is just a light switch (no ignition key) but there is a simple frame mounted switch to control power to the coil. I also fitted another switch on the battery box to isolate the battery. There is a small solid state rectifier fitted in the battery box. My feeling is that the flat battery was caused by a combination of a wire coming loose and me spending some time with the ignition switched on investigating the sparks. The distributor cap had an unused hole in the upward facing side (non standard) that let in oil when the head gasket leaked oil over it. I have a new copper head gasket to fit.
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The ammeters in the hlamp…
The ammeters in the hlamp shell are notoriously unreliable, test, don't guess. Still on 6 volts, and has it still the original wiring? if so, it will be knackered by now, along with the connectors (if they are coming apart that is a good indicator there is a problem with them)
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I like it....
TEST DON'T GUESS A very good maxim Peter. 1958 wiring used regularly-British weather-a recipe for a failure. Dizzy cap with a spare hole? That cap is Bakelite, not easy to drill! Non standard light switch. Sounds like a recipe for a disaster-which it has done.
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Points dont need much oil on them to give trouble and the gap needs regular attention as the fixing can slip and the fibre heel wears.However ,I still value the simplicity of points and ease of making small changes to timing and fault finding. .so , many years ago i fitted boyer /pazon cheap EI points assist boxes. . This takes the load off the points which are now only a trigger and will still run if not in ideal condition. The vulnerable and hard to find condensor that lives on the points plate can be removed or insulated out of circuit as its not needed with the system. I have used this system on two bikes and it has been perfect. for 20 plus years. I also used similar boxes on two very tired old cars that the wife drove to work and they solved poor starting and running issues till the cars rotted away. There are still HT connections ,brush and rotor arm that need carefull attention . I would happily switch to a modern full EI system but would need to carry a spare as I dont trust a system I cant fault find. The old points system can be re-instated in no time if there is an issue with a box on the road.