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Clutch/brake levers on 650SS

Submitted by david_francis on Tue, 23/02/2021
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Heavy Twins

I thought it was about time I fitted new cables to the fronr brake and clutch on my 650SS,as they've both been on the bike for years, so I ordered one of each from Venhill Engineering. They arrived this morning. However, they don't fit. The purpose of the new clutch cable, apart from the current one being old, was to try to lighten the clutch action. I know that the 650SS has a reputation for a heavy clutch, but I could do with the forearms and hands of Popeye to make it comfortable.

Firstly, the fact that neither cable fits: both outers are too long (or the inners are too short) is obviously a concern. The levers on my bike are both 1 and 1/8" pivot length, and both have cable adjusters on them (albeit the clutch one has been 'modified' slightly). I had already been mulling over whether I should purchase new levers with a reduced pivot distance in order to ease the effort required at the lever - I was planning on 7/8", but that was based on thinking the current levers were only 1" pivot.

Secondly, offering up the cables roughly would suggest that they would fit if the levers were the type without adjusters.

So my query is, does anyone know what type of levers were fitted as original equipment? And does anyone have experience of using the reduced pivot levers?

Submitted by robert_tuck on Tue, 23/02/2021

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I had an orriginal pair of levers on my 1960 dommy. which  should  be the same leverage as yours I think.  The clutch is 7/8"  centers  (no adjuster) and the front brake is 1" centers (no adjuster) ,  I think the SS got the ball ends.   I always assumed my levers had the same centers ,I was wrong!.  I have changed the brake lever to 7/8" in order to get a bit more leverage ,but the reduced travel ( and a longer drum lever) has meant  very regular close  adjustment needed. I have come accross SS/Atlas pattern clutch springs  that look ok but are far too hard . The only way I could ID the problem was with a Micrometer as the wire used is slightly greater than the correct items. The 99 clutch is now perfect but the Atlas is too heavy still for wimpy son with tennis elbow.  Wondering about a Kegler modification.

Submitted by alan_rogers on Tue, 23/02/2021

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Robert is correct about the correct lever 7/8 pivot, both of my bikes 650SS & Atlas have after market levers with adjusters-

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For cables as the adjuster was already on the handlebar I went to Commando type featherlite [no adjuster at gearbox end] but from memory you need a longer [ maybe 60"] cable, the nylon lined featherlite are a lot more user friendly.

Submitted by bob_matthews on Tue, 23/02/2021

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The levers on my bike (99) are both 7/8" pivot centres and what a difference it makes to the 1 1/8" ones.   Neither lever has an adjuster.  My clutch and front brake (tls) are both two finger jobs which makes riding around town or urban areas a pleasure.  And off the peg cables have fitted straight on.

Both levers available from Feked.

https://www.feked.com/genuine-doherty-407p-type-clutch-lever-7-8-bars-plain-end-7-8-pivot.html

https://www.feked.com/genuine-doherty-407p-type-brake-lever-7-8-bars-plain-end-7-8-pivot.html

Submitted by graham_reeves on Tue, 23/02/2021

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Hi

When I researched this for my 1964 650ss I came to the conclusion that the std fit was:

- Clutch, ball end 7/8 pivot point, no adjuster. The correct lever makes a significant improvement to the clutch pull

- Brake, ball end 1 1/16 pivot, no adjuster and integral choke lever. I think someone told me they fitted 1 1/16 pivot points as they thought the brake might be too sharp - as if !!!!! Whether this was an urban myth or not I don't know but fitting a 7/8 pivot should improve the brake and is what I plan to fit when I get round to it.

All of these lever combinations are available from AMC Spares who provide an excellent service

http://www.amcclassicspares.com/Cables%20&%20Control%20Levers.pdf

The above information seems to stack with all the period photos I came across ……….. but may be wrong.

 

Good luck.

 

 

I have just purchased 7/8" pivot centre levers (code 509P) for my 650SS, to go with two new cables from Venhill Engineering. Got my levers from Feked, who I found did quite a number of levers for 7/8" bars. The new items for the clutch certainly improve the experience. I should think effort required has almost halved. I found the clutch cable itself could have been a little longer to make providing an easy run for the cable simpler, and have mentioned it to Venhill. I am still trying to work out the front brake set-up. I recently fitted new shoes and linings to the front brake, and find that the new cable inner is too short to reach the arm on the brake plate (or perhaps the outer is too long). In fact the cable supplied would be improved, in my opinion, by being shorter overall, as I was struggling a little to find somewhere to put it all! If only I could take some of the extra inches from the brake cable, and graft it onto the clutch cable.............

At present I have reverted back to the old 1 1/8" pivot centre front brake lever with handlebar adjuster and the old cable till I resolve the problem.

Hi David

I came across exactly the same problem this week with a Venhill clutch cable supplied by RGM. For standard flat bars I believe the cable is approximately 3 inches too short. I checked the cable run behind the oil tank to contemporary pictures and my routing was correct. The supplied cable does just fit but results in a tight cable run and heavy clutch. I fed this back to Venhill and will be contacting RGM. My solution was to get Venhill to repair the broken cable (also a Venhill but forget who supplied it) although Venhill would have supplied a 3 inch longer one which is not a listed part. Interestingly AN list a 3 inch longer cable but for export bars (currently out of stock).

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 19/03/2021

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I ride my 650ss as a daily all year round :) standard setup now, when I got mine it had the wrong fulcrum levers on an when I changed them instant difference. I put new springs nuts and clutch plates in to all from Norvil an it's been perfect since.

Set the clutch up as per the book regards how much to put the nuts on.

Really nice lever action and never slips. 

Submitted by david_cooper on Fri, 19/03/2021

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The TLS brake realky needs a shorter cable if you have the flat bars on your Dommie, and nobody seems to sell them ready made last time I looked.

Submitted by david_francis on Sat, 20/03/2021

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Hi Graham,

Seems to me that perhaps Venhill have some incorrect data concerning some cables for Norton. I have sent mine back to them, after some short email conversations. They say they will correct my cables to the figures I have given them. My clutch cable just about fitted while I had several major parts off the bike, but when I some of the bits back, the cable was so tight on full left lock that it took any slack + a little more out of the cable. The cable it replaced was about 4½" longer, so have asked for a longer cable. Coincidentally, the new front brake cable is about the same amount longer than the one it is replacing, and as I said earlier on this subject, I was struggling to find a convenient home for the extra inches. Both the new Venhill cables are more heavily built it seems, than the previous ones, thus slightly less flexible.

Submitted by robert_tuck on Sat, 20/03/2021

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Where the clutch cable goes round the back of the oil tank  it is forced to follow a less than straight path to the box.  With a Deluxe the side panels hide everything so I drilled a new cable run through the  tank mounts and gearbox plates   ,every little improvement helps .

Submitted by tom_mcewen on Tue, 30/03/2021

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I changed to 7/8" pivot lever on my 99 and added a Venhill cable, and it totally transformed riding: I can hold the clutch open with my little finger, no more wrist-ache. You might also consider inserting a large blind grommet in the primary chain-case so you can adjust the rod and the springs without disturbing your carefully-achieved oil-tight case?

 



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